BMW 1200RS

[ClassicVW_imp]

I don't think we are bashing BMW since their recent failures have been well covered and verified by personal experiences.

I don't like the company's track record of denying there is a problem, but quietly fixing an issue only for the owners that complain the loudest. It took them 4 years to admit the fuel strip problem and to extend the warranty on the ones they replace. Some owners had the fuel strip on their bike replaced 6 or 7 times while waiting for BMW to step up. Same denial about the final drive failures. Same denial about the plastic fuel line quick disconnects that break and spray your legs with fuel under pressure while you're riding a hot bike. The same thing is now happening with regard to the new GS model's heated grips. BMW is telling owners that at 100 degrees, the grips are "working as designed", and that the metal of the handlebars was becoming a heat sink! But owners that have had them replaced report the new grips are now at 165-170 degrees. Terrible customer service overall.

[the Ferret]

That doesn't sound like bashing at all lol

There have been 2 different recalls on the SMC on Goldwings while ST owners have had to foot the bill for the same issue which Honda refuses to step up for. Honda refuses to acknowledge a problem with ST thermostats while many members are replacing them on their own dime every couple of years. I'm on my third since 2008. There have been 3 recalls on the cam chain tensioners of the new Yamaha FZ-09. Ducati tank swelling was and still is an issue that Ducati doesn't want to take responsibility for. Ducati rear brake problems. Truth is, a certain percentage of anything mechanical is liable to have issues

Yes Like I said BMW's reputation has taken a hit of late with some well publicized issues, but there are many really happy BMW owners, rolling up big miles without issues and many repeat customers. It's because of the technology in BMW's that many ST owners are making the switch to the BMW R1200RT, because Honda has refused to update the ST since 2003 while others mfgs like Triumph, Yamaha and BMW have updated their lineup with cruise, heated grips, adjustable on the fly suspension, power modes, std abs, std TC, std TPM. All those features are awesome as long as they are working, it's when they aren't working right that your reputation suffers .

[gossman_imp]

That 2015 R1200RS still looks like a sweet ride. Seems all the owners I see on them have grey hair

[ClassicVW_imp]

I'm really not trying to bash them. Just listing problems and their unwillingness to take responsibility or their tactic to deny deny deny and delay delay delay. Everything I am relating either happened to me, or a member of my local club. I even recall more members having other QC issues on brand new bikes but am not mentioning all of them. As you even said, its all well known. I don't know just when they went from being known as makers of quirky but ultra reliable machines, to it going downhill to become a crap shoot if you get a bulletproof one, or one that's a garage queen, always waiting for parts from the Fatherland. Yes, I agree there are thousands of happy BMW owners. And many others who switched to Honda, Triumph and Yamaha.

[Elipten_imp]

Well nothing lasts forever. As my father used to say the Roman Empire did not last, England did not last, but my guess is after spending the last 15 months working on and off on my K75 as mostly preemptive age related restoration, and addressing well documented design issue, this bike will out last me know matter how much I ride it. The current high mileage holder I know of has over 800,000 miles. So 800000 miles/40 mpg = 20,000 gallons x $3.00 = $60,000. Wow!

Not bashing the old BMWs deserved the excellent reputation the earned. In mid 2000s that changed.


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[JustPassinThru_imp]

When I was a kid, my father rode Indians and then Harleys. I am not kidding when I tell you this, top ends on his bikes had to be overhauld every 10,000 miles. Bottom ends every 20,000 miles. BMWs from that era would reportedly go 100,000 miles. So I grew up wanting a BMW (you could also get a 10 gallon gas tank as an option which I thought was cool).

I've always thought the BMW R100/7 was one of the most beautiful bikes ever made. 4 times since 1976 I have tried to buy BMW motorcycles. First time was an R 90S. Last time was an 1150 Rockster.Each time a test ride convinced me not to buy. Love looking at them. Hate riding them.

The handling is far different from that of a UJB.

Just getting on one for the first time...it's squirrely. It wants to go every direction BUT straight. It doesn't seem to have a strong self-centering pull.

But, once you make friends with the chassis...it's actually more intuitive. You steer with your hips - lean into it. Then you press AGAINST the handlebars to control the steer. Sounds crazy; but once you've acclimated to it, it's a very engaging dynamic.

The engine/driveline is another matter. If I were to describe the Boxer engine, it would be "tractor." It pulls away strong at the light...which is good, because with a $3k clutch you don't want to be slipping it. It'll wind up, but it sounds like you're destroying it long before the redline.

Not unlike the AMC Jeep six-cylinder engines.

My guess is, the Boxer design just got too big for its parameters. Six hundred CCs in each cylinder...it's not going to run as smooth as a three or four, or as well-mannered as the old airhead boxers half the displacement.

No matter - I'm done with the marque. Found a buyer for my RT this weekend; I get the cash and deliver the goods tomorrow.

That 2015 R1200RS still looks like a sweet ride. Seems all the owners I see on them have grey hair

The cost of admission is a barrier.

And while Harleys offer the "vroom-vroom" appeal to a certain demographic, BMW has allure of a different sort. It's the true Yuppie ride...guys who've made some money and now have the time to play.

Harleys, IMHO, are all about noise and spectacle and people who want to pretend they're Hell's Angels. The actual ride is less important than the social angles...the groups; the meets; the...whatever.

IMHO, of course.

Well nothing lasts forever. As my father used to say the Roman Empire did not last, England did not last, but my guess is after spending the last 15 months working on and off on my K75 as mostly preemptive age related restoration, and addressing well documented design issue, this bike will out last me know matter how much I ride it. The current high mileage holder I know of has over 800,000 miles. So 800000 miles/40 mpg = 20,000 gallons x $3.00 = $60,000. Wow!

Not bashing the old BMWs deserved the excellent reputation the earned. In mid 2000s that changed.


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As Germany changed. As its culture changed.

Remember VW of years ago? Literally, the "People's Car." As the name said. Humble transportation - well made, to deliver value to buyers who eschew status symbols.

That went in the dumpster about 1980. The company was losing money on Rabbits, due to the strong dollar which meant VW could not price to match Japanese manufacturers. So, a new chairman decreed, publicly, that they were committed to making money on every sale, and market-share would not be a consideration.

And it came to pass. Aside from the brief dalliance with the Brazilian-made VW Fox, VW models have moved WAY upscale. And it's been only recently that the market has shifted to where a VW is actually an option as a mid-priced car.

And only an option when you ignore the high cost of repairs later in the car's life. This is where Toyota has beaten VW hands-down: Toyotas are boring, but the company stands behind them to the end. German cars, all three major brands, are superbly engineered - and sold and serviced by people with the ethics of a grave robber.

Toyota, and other Asian makes, view the customer as a long-term associate. The Germans view him as PREY.

[Cormanus]

I seem to recall Jeremy Clarkson describing the VW Jetta as the most boring car ever made.

[ClassicVW_imp]

JPT, my experience agrees with everything you say, with regard to H-D, Toyota and VW. (modern VW company). VW gets VERY expensive after the warranty is over, same with BMW cars and motorcycles.

I own 4 Toyotas. A few are quite old. 3 have 130K plus. Just gas, oil changes and brakes. Maybe shocks. The first major repair just happened- a Catalytic converter at 130K. Yes, they might make some boring designs, but what sets them apart is that their most economical offering probably will still be on the road 10 or 12 years later. For many makes that's not the norm. It's all in the tight build tolerances of the engines and transmissions, from a $12,000 car to a $60,000 SUV.

What killed the VW Beetle was the U.S. pollution laws of the late 70s. (Some have said that the pollution controls forced on the vehicles cut the pollution in half, but also cut the vehicle's fuel mileage in half too!) That sloppy engine design of the VW couldn't be brought into compliance. But that same design allowed any person to make any repair on the car in their driveway. And there's another reason to kill the car- $$$ - You don't need a dealer for service or repairs. But it still was made after that for many years in Mexico for the South American market.

[rboe]

Early Subaru's (but not too early) made a water cooled version of the VW Beetle motor and put it in their all wheel drive cars with decent success. It has since been upgraded and redesigned; a route VW could have taken. Our personal experience with a 2003 Jetta Wagon swore me off of VW's forever. It was replaced with a Subaru Outback, so far, a much superior car in every respect.

[the Ferret]

Why do my wife and I drive Honda cars?

1st Accord a 91 5 speed I drove 283,000 miles, gave it to my daughter who drove another 40,000 miles before it expired

2 nd Accord a 97 5 speed I drove 200,000 miles gave to my son in law he's still driving it

1st Civic a 2003 5 speed I drove 195,000 miles sold it to a client I've lost touch with

2nd Civic a 2006 5 speed I drove 197, 000 miles and sold it to a friend who is still driving it

CRV a 97 my wife drove 200,000 and gave it to my daughter who is still driving it at 250,000

Odyssey Van a 2003 I think, my wife drove 157,000 miles and traded it in on a new Accord

2006 Accord my wife is driving now 203,000 miles and plans to drive until she retires

2010 Ridgeline truck I am driving now, 37,000 miles (my retirement vehicle)

My wife retires in 2-3 years and has saved the money for a new Accord.

Knock on wood, not a single engine, clutch or transmission failure. Put a couple timing belts on some of the earlier ones (now they have chains). I think a catalytic converter in the Odyssey, other than that oil, filters, and brakes, only 1 battery that I recall, and just replaced the first exhaust on the one my wife is driving now. Generally got 100,000 miles out of front brakes and never had to replace the rear brakes that I recall. I love my Hondas..cars AND bikes. Before that I drove Toyotas. I did buy a new Chev truck in 2003 and had terrible luck with it and sold it within a year with 35,000 miles on it ( took a terrible bath on that one) and bought my wife a used Chrysler mini van before the Odyssey and had terrible luck with it as well and sold it 6 months after I bought it. People I sold it to, a young couple with kids, had it less than a week and the air conditioner went out and I paid $600 to have that fixed for them.

I am pretty much a Honda owner for the rest of my life now I suppose. They have earned my loyalty.