Counter Steering - Physics

[Offroad]

I always think I know how to ride pretty well, but I'm not so arrogant that I don't think I can't learn something new. Plus I love Physics, so this post matches my way of thinking.

At first this guy might seem a little arrogant, but like his straight up, physics, math based instructions....this one matches the twisted throttle view on how leaning vs. counter steering affects turning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UorwOyg1hI

Plus I really like the seats on the BMW and Ducati, are they custom? I would like one like that for my 2014 STD.

[Ack-CB11_imp]

All the fast guys do it. Once you do you'll never go back.
Makes for smoother cornering at any kind of speed.
That BMW seat is not stock, that thing is xtra wide.

[rboe]

Fast guys know they are using it; but everybody uses it (except at very low speed), above a walking speed it's the only way a bike will turn.

[Firstfour_imp]

My MSF instructor spoke with the same, ah, fervor on the subject. Seems to be one of those motorcycling subjects that gets some folks riled up. He also added the concept of simultaneously turning your head, in a kind of exaggerated way, in the direction you want to go.

His co-instructor (and wife) said she though of it more as pushing down on the bar, which made more sense to her.

[CIP57_imp]

Everyone counter steers unless your new to riding and uncomfortable. As far as input to the bars to get the bike out and than over, this can be used for a bike's that are not as neutral as the CB or if you find your in trouble and need more angle of attack. My friend has a Connie and its real hard to get it over, input to the bars is necessary to counter steer. Its just natural to go outside to set up your line for a corner, you would never go into a corner flat.

[Deanohh_imp]

Fast guys know they are using it; but everybody uses it (except at very low speed), above a walking speed it's the only way a bike will turn.

Isn't that what's involved when you "learn" to ride a bicycle? Not falling over = countersteering. To turn left you must initially turn the bars right to get the bike to lean left and turn, etc.

[Offroad]

Some videos show that at very slow speeds, less than 5-8 mph, you actually turn steer right to turn right and vice versa.

The funny thing I've always taught my kids and grandkids when learning to ride a bicycle is if you start to fall a certain direction, turn that way to keep from falling. But of course that is at very slow speeds and it keeps getting slower if I'm the one teaching them while holding on to the back of their seat ;-)

I always thought that was because of the "rake" angle on the fork. If you try to balance a bicycle without any forward speed, turning the wheel toward the fall side is the only way to stay up.
But at higher speeds, you do turn left to turn right and so on.

The new way to teach riding a bicycle is to get those bicycles without pedals. My last two grand kids learned to ride that way. Of course that takes acceleration out of the equation to stay up right so I’m not sure that’s a good thing, but it worked, so it's hard to argue with success.

This might be over thinking things, but when I was learning to fly my Cessna 172, breaking down a complex connected set of motions into steps was the way it was taught.

So I find it interesting just to try and break down what comes naturally now, into logical physics backed decisions. And as I become older, I do more thinking than actually doing, so this is fun mental exercise for me ;-)

[Ack-CB11_imp]

It must be imbedded in me, regular just doesn't feel right. It's like you have to force the bike to steer normally? Turning left to go right sounds strange but feels so good.
They covered it alot at road racing school, well that was 1990 and bikes didn't handle like today. Maybe "back in the day" we just had to on the track?