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+--- Thread: Power Commander / Autotune trims (/showthread.php?tid=5145)
Power Commander / Autotune trims - PowerDubs_imp - 06-22-2018
Ok, so I've been riding around for a few days with these installed.
There are 2 base files on the Dynojet site-
2013 stock bike.
2014 w/ slip on.
Just so everyone is on the same page, I'll rehash my understanding of the basics-
#1- the factory ecu tune on the 2013 and 2014 are different. There is a mention of it on the Honda website that discusses the technical build story of the CB1100. They mention the difference when they talk about the change to 6 gears. They do NOT give detail on which maps change- fuel, spark, throttle response (opening of tb blades)...etc
#2- the desired 'tune' of both the files on the dynojet site are 100% the same as far as the a/f target table. The fuel trim table results are way different but the goal they are trying to achieve was simply carried over.
The target table is pretty basic- they threw 13.2 on the whole thing, pretty much all RPM and throttle position and then just leaned out a few cells in what they would consider the cruise rpm and light throttle position.
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So my bike is a '14, I started with the '14 file on the site. I've rode around and applied trims several times.
While the exact numbers in the fuel table are naturally different given my addition of the arrow header and modified velocity stacks, the overall look is the same- adding and removing fuel in basically the same map areas. A lot of the cells are negative.
If you look at the applied fuel on the dynotjet '13 file' you will see it looks a lot different than the 14 and mine- it adds fuel everywhere, but remember the target a/f table is 100% the same.
SOOO- I am going to now load the '13' file onto my bike and see what happens. In theory since the target is the same, the autotune should start pulling a lot of fuel out and after I trim several times I should end up right back where I am now on the '14 file.
Anyone have any thoughts for sake of discussion?
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Part 2-
Once I have settled on my selection of hardware parts puzzle- snorkels, velocity stacks, cams, juggle them around for best results and best fuel mapping- I intend on hooking up the speed sensor to the autotune and letting it map fueling for each gear individually. I don't think I have seen anyone take advantage of that feature yet?
RE: Power Commander / Autotune trims - Aussieflyer - 06-23-2018
Agree. If you don't change anything else (fuel octane, weather, weight, etc.) you are likely end up very near the same performance no matter which map you start with. Of course the adjustments (%) made by the Autotune will differ depending on which map you commence but if you could measure the precise fuel delivered in each cell of the map I expect you'd end up with similar amounts.
RE: Power Commander / Autotune trims - apex1_imp - 06-23-2018
I think Aussieflyer is correct. If you have spent the time and money to add the Autotune on top of your PC, I don’t know if it matters which base tune you start with or which accessories you add. It looks like a very cool set-up.
RE: Power Commander / Autotune trims - PowerDubs_imp - 06-24-2018
Been playing with this for a few tanks of gas.
I put the '13' tune on for fun, and went for a decent ride. Came back and looked at the trims and it did indeed pull some fuel out of some cells, but nowhere near as many or as much as I was expecting.
I have noticed the box seems to adjust trims very slowly. I am not sure if it needs to be in a certain cell for a certain amount of time before it will make a change, or in that cell a certain # of times.
DJ is just throwing a blanket of 13.2 on the whole maps other than cruise. Which is understandable for them as it is a safe even # anyone can put on the bike and run well without eating fuel or danger of going lean. Good compromise.
DJ's version of cruise leans the table out at 5% throttle from 4500rpm-redline, 10% throttle from 3500-4500, and 15% throttle from 4500-5000.
None of that makes sense to me.
I am trying to watch my throttle position VS rpm as I am riding to make a mental note of where I want to tailor my tune. My version of light throttle cruise, regardless of in town or on the highway is basically 2-3k tops. Maybe the 5 speed bikes are reving higher?
I even have +2 on my rear sprocket and still cruise much lower rpm area than dynojet is tuning for.
They also aren't leaning out much for cruise- only 13.6 which is still fairly rich for fuel economy...and remember the actual areas we seem to be cruising in they are still at 13.2
On the other end of the scale, once on the throttle and we all know the butt dyno can be completely wrong, but the bike seems to feel better to me the more fuel I give it. I'm currently working my map richer the more the throttle and rpm increase, peaking at 12.8 a/f.
Since we are air cooled, I would much rather have a little more fuel to hopefully keep temps down a bit.
I am going to bite the bullet and buy the POD dash display accessory for this system so I can watch throttle/rpm/af in real time while I am riding to further dial this in.
Here are some charts I've been looking at.
![[Image: ec2be42efc775cb52b061423d9da25fa.jpg]](https://cb1100forum.net/forum/uploads/imp/201806/ec2be42efc775cb52b061423d9da25fa.jpg)
![[Image: 58ae82925964834d789209f46738dd40.gif]](https://cb1100forum.net/forum/uploads/imp/201806/58ae82925964834d789209f46738dd40.gif)
![[Image: 633da3c9c2a324dbe8f6baa0d5c7f9c9.jpg]](https://cb1100forum.net/forum/uploads/imp/201806/633da3c9c2a324dbe8f6baa0d5c7f9c9.jpg)
Power Commander / Autotune trims - PowerDubs_imp - 06-24-2018
Based on those charts, and my rough idea of where my very light throttle cruise rpm is- here is my current* a/f target map.
Besides cruise, note I am also going richer for both more power/tq and cooler burn as the throttle opening and rpm increase.
*Subject to change at any time of course.
![[Image: f12b1cea6020cd1f4cd83b2fb6ff7592.jpg]](https://cb1100forum.net/forum/uploads/imp/201806/f12b1cea6020cd1f4cd83b2fb6ff7592.jpg)
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For comparison this is the target table on the Dynojet supplied files.
They must think we cruise this in 3rd gear like a sport bike.
![[Image: b91f5e0e67ff52a808af0e18b779f7a1.jpg]](https://cb1100forum.net/forum/uploads/imp/201806/b91f5e0e67ff52a808af0e18b779f7a1.jpg)
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RE: Power Commander / Autotune trims - beardyweirdy@me.com_imp - 06-24-2018
I've been doing the same sort tinkering.
With your cruise at 2-3k, do you think the AT is even working?
With no Target AFR values sub 4500 rpm until 10%, it might not even be kicking in.
2-3k rpm on my bike is a mere whiff of throttle and only really about 2-5% I reckon.
Be good to see what your on-board meter says...
RE: Power Commander / Autotune trims - PowerDubs_imp - 06-24-2018
Well- trims are happening at 10%, so my changing *where* they trim to isn't going to stop them from trimming.
And if dynojet set cruise at 10%, then I see no reason to do otherwise.
One thing you will notice on my map is I tried to blend the transition in any given direction..
The POD (and dyno) will show the results. This is all just initial stages. The cams and choice of airbox intake, and possibly even back to stock velocity stacks will still happen.
Tuning tweaks will occur, but I think moving the cruise lower in the RPM and mixing the target #'s instead of a mass blanket of 13.2 should be better...in theory...
BTW- as it sits- wacking the throttle in 1st will float the front wheel for the duration, and I'd need a camera to be sure, but I believe 2nd gear as well as long as I am at about 4k when I hit it.
Power Commander / Autotune trims - beardyweirdy@me.com_imp - 06-24-2018
Roger that.
Just that if your cruise is at less than 10% throttle then the AT won’t trim those cells, right?
I put target AFR in the 5% column and it pulled strongly from low down. That may be wrong but it felt good ;-)
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RE: Power Commander / Autotune trims - jtopiso_imp - 06-24-2018
So, I am confused now. You are saying that I could be richer with autotune? This sounds better than bitcoin!
RE: Power Commander / Autotune trims - Aussieflyer - 06-24-2018
(06-24-2018, 05:48 PM)beardyweirdy@me.com_imp Wrote: Roger that.
Just that if your cruise is at less than 10% throttle then the AT won’t trim those cells, right?
I put target AFR in the 5% column and it pulled strongly from low down. That may be wrong but it felt good ;-)
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According to Dynojet instructions for the Autotune there's no problems with specifying target AFR at any throttle positions except 0% (closed).
"Dynojet does not recommend inputting values in the 0% column of the Target AFR tables. If you shoud need to tune the 0% column to combat popping on deceleration input values directly in the Fuel tables"