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+--- Thread: Modifying your bike (/showthread.php?tid=1148)
Modifying your bike - Cormanus - 10-02-2018
From another thread:
I get it. My point is this. The CB 1100 has been designed, engineered, and manufactered as a UJM. If you want/need more modern technology, then buy a CB 1000R.
DBM, I'm not trying to pick a fight; I'm interested in your view and that of others on this oft-posed question. I've started this thread because I'd like to discuss it in a general way without reference to individual members' decisions about their bikes.
The CB1100 is hardly a UJM of the 70s and 80s. While looking a bit like one, it's really thoroughly modern with fine brakes, fuel injection, a computer under the tank working lots of stuff out on the fly in a thoroughly modern way. Some of them have ABS and fuel gauges and fancy calculators to tell you how much fuel you've used and how far you have to go before you run out. The new-fangled ones even have a slipper clutch and dual bending forks. How long will it be, if the model continues to roll out, before there are electronic suspension and power settings?
Should that not be the case? Should we all still be riding a 70s or 80s UJM? If it is OK for the bikes to evolve, why shouldn't people upgrade their older CB1100 to take advantage of it?
More generally, why shouldn't people modify their bikes in any way they want?
RE: Modifying your bike - the Ferret - 10-02-2018
Im not sure where I stand. I do believe people should be able to modify their personal bikes however they wish. Im not sure how far I want Honda to modify our bike however.
ABS ok I get that, even have it on my DLX ( have yet to need it, but may someday). It also has digital gear indicator, and a trip computer both of which I like, but neither of which was the cause for me buying the bike. My 13 CB 1100 had neither., and it was a perfectly fine bike.
Slipper clutch? Ok, makes pulling the clutch lever easier, engagement feels the same. ( have it on my FJR). Downshifting multiple times at high speed I don't understand, because I have never ridden like that, there for in that respect it has no benefit for me personally
Quick shifter.. Another electronic aid I don't understand.I just dont personally understand the need to shift without using the clutch. Maybe on the racetrack, but not on the street.
Ride modes, traction control, cruise control, have those on the FJR as well. So far the only thing that has been of any benefit to me has been the cruise control. But then again it is a sport tourer designed for long distance interstate travel, and a cruise control comes in handy then. I brought it home from the dealer in Tour mode, and I have never even tried it in sport mode. I'm happy with Tour mode. I imagine the TC could come in handy some day. We shall see. Then again it is a 675 pound 145 hp beast, unlike the mild mannered CB.
hill assist, fob starting, multi axis smu, all available on some modern bikes but just unnecessary things to go wrong eventually imo. On a recent tour with my doctor on a BMW RT both his hill assist and the fob thingy caused issues. I prefer the key.
Liquid cooling... Surely a benefit for engine longevity and power, but interestingly I think for many that would be the line in the sand. " Yea give me all the technology available, but absolutely NO water cooling"
Modify them too much and you've gone beyond the intended mission I think, but all this is just personal opinion.
I also don't understand fender eliminators and loud exhaust.. Or riding helmetless and in shorts and flip flops...but like I said I do believe everyone should be able to do what they want with their bikes... And bodies.
RE: Modifying your bike - jtopiso_imp - 10-02-2018
I wouldn't mid an integrated GPS on the dashboard if it fitted in with the classic look of the bike, but I woudn't change the 2 dials design of the dashboard for a dash that looked like an iPad. Maybe, a "virtual speedo" that looks like an analog gauge for speed, and can show maps and navigation when required would be a nice toy I'd get for the right amount.
I think the LED headlight of the 17 model is very good, and you don't need a bike that looks like an insect to get modern ilumination performance. I would like traction control for some peace of mind (sometimes I find some sand on the road after a storm), but I don't think of it as a necesity.
So, yes: I like modern technology on a "classic-inspired" naked bike, but it doesn't need to run on coal to look classic.
Water cooled? One of the main reasons for me to choose the CB was its modern air-cooled I4!
RE: Modifying your bike - VLJ_imp - 10-03-2018
One of the most attractive attributes of the classic UJM was its easy accessibility. The CBs of yore were easy to ride, maintain, insure, and purchase. If Honda were to add too many electronic gizmos to the CB, such as electronic suspension, while retaining its relatively pedestrian engine/handling performance, they would be forced to increase the price of their already overpriced motorcycle right out of existence.
If they're going to continue to sell the CB1100, they have to focus on the wants and needs of that particular buyer: air cooling, old-fashioned simplicity, authentic retro style, all-around comfort, quality materials, excellent fit and finish, consistent performance, and sundial reliability. In terms of amenities and performance the bike is already priced too high for what it offers, relative to most of its competition. Adding non-retro-appeal gadgets will not help its cause on the showroom floor. Rather, what the Honda needs to set itself apart from the growing retro-bike crowd is competitive performance combined with superior style, quality, and value. As it currently sits in the marketplace, the CB occupies a niche that is too narrowly focused. Honda needs to broaden the CB's appeal, and the only things that will accomplish this are an increase in performance married to a substantial reduction in price, and a whole lot more marketing of the product. Bare minimum, the bike needs more performance in order to lure the many fence-sitters out there who want to buy the bike based on its looks and air-cooled authenticity, but who simply can't stomach the idea of a bland, underpowered UJM that costs significantly more than its direct competition.
As to the question of whether people should modify their bikes? Of course they should, if that's what they want to do. They're free to do whatever they want with their bikes, and people have happily modified UJMs for as long as there have been UJMs. In fact, modding one's motorcycle is hardly confined to the world of UJMs. I'd be hard-pressed to come up with a style of motorcycle that isn't often modified by its owners. Race bikes? Nope. Cruisers? Definitely not. ADVs? Those things get farkled to death. Touring bikes? Same deal.
I suppose that maybe the Budget Commuter is more likely than any other type of bike to be left stock by its owners. The object there is cheap, reliable, no-frills transportation, so it doesn't make sense to throw a bunch of time and money at something that is used as a low-cost, generic appliance rather than as a pride-and-joy piece like a CB1100, Ninja, Harley, Gold Wing, or GS.
RE: Modifying your bike - LongRanger_imp - 10-03-2018
Ferret and VLJ, all good points. I agree.
I think it'd be interesting if the CB was available in an Interstate version, similar to the early Gold Wings, complete with frame-mounted fairing and bags. A retro-tourer for those who yearn for the open road. Is Craig Vetter still around?
I've been reading some interesting comments regarding the marketing of the Monkey. Many are suggesting Honda ought to reach beyond the established motorcycle community and instead advertise in Home & Garden, Popular Mechanics, etc., to reach the non-motorcycling public. I think they make a good point. Existing motorcyclists probably aren't the target market for this bike.
RE: Modifying your bike - alprider - 10-03-2018
what cares me the electronic and so on...only the look and drive-dynamic and ergonomics is important....and of course Reliable shall it be
emission standards is a total other story.....at time we have just only the luck with our current CB....
RE: Modifying your bike - misterprofessionality - 10-03-2018
(10-02-2018, 11:07 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Im not sure where I stand. I do believe people should be able to modify their personal bikes however they wish. Im not sure how far I want Honda to modify our bike however.
ABS ok I get that, even have it on my DLX ( have yet to need it, but may someday). It also has digital gear indicator, and a trip computer both of which I like, but neither of which was the cause for me buying the bike. My 13 CB 1100 had neither., and it was a perfectly fine bike.
Slipper clutch? Ok, makes pulling the clutch lever easier, engagement feels the same. ( have it on my FJR). Downshifting multiple times at high speed I don't understand, because I have never ridden like that, there for in that respect it has no benefit for me personally
Quick shifter.. Another electronic aid I don't understand.I just dont personally understand the need to shift without using the clutch. Maybe on the racetrack, but not on the street.
Ride modes, traction control, cruise control, have those on the FJR as well. So far the only thing that has been of any benefit to me has been the cruise control. But then again it is a sport tourer designed for long distance interstate travel, and a cruise control comes in handy then. I brought it home from the dealer in Tour mode, and I have never even tried it in sport mode. I'm happy with Tour mode. I imagine the TC could come in handy some day. We shall see. Then again it is a 675 pound 145 hp beast, unlike the mild mannered CB.
hill assist, fob starting, multi axis smu, all available on some modern bikes but just unnecessary things to go wrong eventually imo. On a recent tour with my doctor on a BMW RT both his hill assist and the fob thingy caused issues. I prefer the key.
Liquid cooling... Surely a benefit for engine longevity and power, but interestingly I think for many that would be the line in the sand. " Yea give me all the technology available, but absolutely NO water cooling"
Modify them too much and you've gone beyond the intended mission I think, but all this is just personal opinion.
I also don't understand fender eliminators and loud exhaust.. Or riding helmetless and in shorts and flip flops...but like I said I do believe everyone should be able to do what they want with their bikes... And bodies.
There's a common thread here and I think I can lend some perspective on it. What I hear a lot is "hey, a CB11 is a CB11 so instead of making it faster/better/more modern why don't you just sell it and buy a faster/better/more modern bike?" Like ferret for instance. you said that you don't need things like cruise control on the CB11 because all that you have on your FJR. There's this focus among motorcyclists (not just here, everybody I talk to) on always having the absolute best possible tool for whatever it is you're looking to do. " A CB1100 isn't a fast bike, so why are you trying to make it faster?" "A CB1100 isn't a modern bike, so why are you trying to make it more modern?"
This is how I see it: Some folks, me included, didn't buy the CB1100 because we thought it was the very best at anything. I didn't by it because it's an awesome UJM. it is, but that wasn't the primary reason. I didn't buy it because i thought it was fast, i've certainly had faster. I bought it because it was selling brand new at an enormous discount, and my research indicated that there was no possible way I was ever going to find another bike with this much quality and this much engine at anywhere near this price. I don't have a second bike, i can't afford one. the motorcycle I buy has to meet all my needs, even if that means it's not the best at certain things, like speed or handling. The truth about the CB1100 at this stage is that most people buying them are buying them because they are an all around "good" bike at a jaw-dropping price. people who might otherwise never have been able to afford a bike of this quality and size suddenly have the ability to own one. that doesn't mean they aren't interested in faster or more modern bikes. it just means that the CB11 was the very best thing they could afford.
So, from our perspective, the CB1100 is an amazing engine at a great price, and we build the bike we want from there. It doesn't matter that it's a UJM. it doesn't matter what the intended mission of the bike is. all of that is just window dressing. at it's core, it's just a big displacement street bike with a very high quality engine, and we didn't buy a "faster/more modern" bike in the first place because the price, if we're going to get something that's demonstrably better than the CB11, would be too high.
TLDR; I think a lot of CB1100 owners are just making the best out of what's available to them, not necessarily looking for optimization.
RE: Modifying your bike - alprider - 10-03-2018
(10-03-2018, 02:52 AM)LongRanger_imp Wrote: Ferret and VLJ, all good points. I agree.
I think it'd be interesting if the CB was available in an Interstate version, similar to the early Gold Wings, complete with frame-mounted fairing and bags. A retro-tourer for those who yearn for the open road. Is Craig Vetter still around?
I've been reading some interesting comments regarding the marketing of the Monkey. Many are suggesting Honda ought to reach beyond the established motorcycle community and instead advertise in Home & Garden, Popular Mechanics, etc., to reach the non-motorcycling public. I think they make a good point. Existing motorcyclists probably aren't the target market for this bike.
error....i have one now....
....
RE: Modifying your bike - Bheezy27403_imp - 10-03-2018
"just buy a different bike" is a common phrase here, and the TRat forum too for that matter. I believe MisterP has a good point of view about the costs being a factor. But, at it's core, I believe most of people who spew the phrase are just completely enamored by the bike and see it through rose (Honda Red?) colored glasses. It's perfect for them so any change is some sort of an abomination. Which, of course, is fine if they feel that way but I don't believe it needs to be said ad nauseum.
Fact is it's a great bike stock but it also is a great platform for different visions.
RE: Modifying your bike - peterbaron - 10-03-2018
(10-02-2018, 11:07 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Im not sure where I stand. I do believe people should be able to modify their personal bikes however they wish. Im not sure how far I want Honda to modify our bike however.
ABS ok I get that, even have it on my DLX ( have yet to need it, but may someday). It also has digital gear indicator, and a trip computer both of which I like, but neither of which was the cause for me buying the bike. My 13 CB 1100 had neither., and it was a perfectly fine bike.
Slipper clutch? Ok, makes pulling the clutch lever easier, engagement feels the same. ( have it on my FJR). Downshifting multiple times at high speed I don't understand, because I have never ridden like that, there for in that respect it has no benefit for me personally
Quick shifter.. Another electronic aid I don't understand.I just dont personally understand the need to shift without using the clutch. Maybe on the racetrack, but not on the street.
Ride modes, traction control, cruise control, have those on the FJR as well. So far the only thing that has been of any benefit to me has been the cruise control. But then again it is a sport tourer designed for long distance interstate travel, and a cruise control comes in handy then. I brought it home from the dealer in Tour mode, and I have never even tried it in sport mode. I'm happy with Tour mode. I imagine the TC could come in handy some day. We shall see. Then again it is a 675 pound 145 hp beast, unlike the mild mannered CB.
hill assist, fob starting, multi axis smu, all available on some modern bikes but just unnecessary things to go wrong eventually imo. On a recent tour with my doctor on a BMW RT both his hill assist and the fob thingy caused issues. I prefer the key.
Liquid cooling... Surely a benefit for engine longevity and power, but interestingly I think for many that would be the line in the sand. " Yea give me all the technology available, but absolutely NO water cooling"
Modify them too much and you've gone beyond the intended mission I think, but all this is just personal opinion.
I also don't understand fender eliminators and loud exhaust.. Or riding helmetless and in shorts and flip flops...but like I said I do believe everyone should be able to do what they want with their bikes... And bodies.
You read my mind.
I want the motorcycle that is under my control not a tech loaded supersonic jet with gizmos...and CB truly is what I want it to be
