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+--- Thread: 2017 CB1100 EX First Ride Review (/showthread.php?tid=1355)
RE: 2017 CB1100 EX First Ride Review - VLJ_imp - 01-29-2018
Guth, do you think the obvious change in the engine note—not the exhaust volume, but the additional crunchy texture so easily heard in the comparison videos, and felt throughout the bike—can be explained solely by a shorter inlet tract and a smaller exhaust system?
That doesn't sound very plausible to me.
RE: 2017 CB1100 EX First Ride Review - alprider - 01-29-2018
in german review-video (as voice info) from hondas presentation event of the 17 models in spain i could it show about this "times" from the 17 models......maybe you get it too in this 2-3 english videos from the same event that you can find of youtube....
btw
byside the tone gives the new exhaust earlier more torque in the low and middel part of rpms....and this info you find of "honda.eu" page.....(in german)
RE: 2017 CB1100 EX First Ride Review - Guth_imp - 01-29-2018
The best way to know for sure would be to reference the factory service manual. These specifications appear in the manual.
RE: 2017 CB1100 EX First Ride Review - emptysea - 01-29-2018
Thanks, PowerDubs... Questions from a guy who performed his last timing adjustment on a 1970 Plymouth in his Automotives class in 1978:
ecu tuning would not change the timing, correct? that basically controls the fuel mix, right? Or does the ecu control ignition as well?
(01-29-2018, 03:03 PM)Guth_imp Wrote: The best way to know for sure would be to reference the factory service manual. These specifications appear in the manual.Exactly my point...just much better stated.
2017 CB1100 EX First Ride Review - PowerDubs_imp - 01-29-2018
Ecu does fuel and ign curves. As in advance or retard, nothing to do with staggering of the cam timing.
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RE: 2017 CB1100 EX First Ride Review - Flytech99_imp - 01-29-2018
(01-29-2018, 02:56 PM)PowerDubs_imp Wrote:(01-29-2018, 02:40 PM)EmptySea_imp Wrote: Are you sure? because the discussion comparing the exhaust tones, buzziness (which I don't experience on my 2013, btw), seems to call into question that there is a difference in the timing between the two US versions of the bike. One possible explanation could be that some folks have read about the RS and assumed that it was set up the same (regarding the engine) as the EX. I mean, I don't care that much since I'm not in the least bit interested in getting rid of my 2013 ABS, but it might be worth doing some research.
What cracks me up about all of this is that we should have the answer about he timing instantaneously...and yet no one seems to be able to find out the timing on each version of the bike so as to prove things one way or another. Shouldn't that information be in a manual someplace?
Cams are the same, valves are the same, displacement is the same- because all the parts are the same. I compared the parts breakdown a year ago.
Even the intake velocity stacks and the throttle bodies are the same.
There is no difference to the engine whatsoever.
The only ‘inlet’ difference is the outer horn that attaches to the air box. (Same part that gets removed for the tsr flange)
So that, different mufflers, and *maybe* different ecu tuning is all there is.
Seeing how ign timing is tied to cam timing it won’t change the sound of the engine’s character.
Hell of a placebo effect eh?
Some of the posts on here regarding the ‘17 are interesting.....
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Cams are the same, valves are the same, displacement is the same- because all the parts are the same. I compared the parts breakdown a year ago.
Even the intake velocity stacks and the throttle bodies are the same.
There is no difference to the engine whatsoever.
The only ‘inlet’ difference is the outer horn that attaches to the air box. (Same part that gets removed for the tsr flange)
So that, different mufflers, and *maybe* different ecu tuning is all there is.
Seeing how ign timing is tied to cam timing it won’t change the sound of the engine’s character.
Hell of a placebo effect eh?
Some of the posts on here regarding the ‘17 are interesting.....
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When the '17 model was introduced, I read many articles suggesting some kind of visceral difference in engine character over previous models... some of which mentioned a change in valve timing and exhaust as the reasons. I didn't really give it much thought until this thread. I'm starting to see there is probably a placebo effect spawned by creative writing from Honda.
Here's snippet from the EU press release (which adds more detail than the U.S. version) regarding the '17's engine....
Intro: The engine breathes more easily thanks to revised inlets and smaller, lighter dual mufflers. An assist slipper clutch makes for easier lever engagement and rear wheel stability on downshifts.
Body: Proudly at the heart of the CB1100 EX is its silky-smooth DOHC engine. Linear, instantly accessible power and torque is what this motor’s all about, and plenty of it, anywhere in the rev range. Maximum power output of 66kW arrives at 7,500rpm with peak torque figure of 91Nm delivered @ 5,500rpm.
Air (via 2mm fins) and oil-cooled (via a 335mm 9-tier, front-mounted oil cooler), the engine revs to 8,500rpm and features a compression ratio of 9.5:1. Bore and stroke is set at 73.5mm x 67.2mm.
Drive for the twin camshafts is via central chain, and the valve included angle is 26.5° inlet and exhaust. Inlet valve diameter is 27mm, with a 2.5mm stem; exhaust 24mm with 2.5mm stem. A single secondary balancer shaft ensures smooth running.
PGM-FI and 32mm throttle body are fed through a revised, shortened air inlet tract and new air cleaner, and work with the pair of shorter (minus 70mm in length, 7% less in diameter and 2.4kg lighter than previous design) chrome plated exhaust mufflers to boost low and mid-rpm engine reaction.
Internally split into two expansion chambers, each muffler features dual hole-punched link pipes optimised for resonance and the generation of an evocative four-cylinder engine note. Both mufflers hug the machine tighter for improved ground clearance and the downpipes are double skinned to stop heat-induced discolouration.
An assist slipper clutch is now fitted. With die-cast aluminium cam and slipper cam it saves weight, reduces lever effort by 16% and minimizes rear wheel ‘hop’ through engine braking on rapid down changes. The six-speed gearbox, with carefully matched ratios for gears 1-5 gives crisp response and acceleration, while 6th is an overdrive reducing fuel consumption and lowering engine rpm at highway speeds. Final drive is by 530 chain.
The CB1100 EX engine is EURO4 compliant.
I would think any significant changes to engine tuning, timing or output would have been mentioned along with the three "new" items mentioned above...........
2017 CB1100 EX First Ride Review - PowerDubs_imp - 01-29-2018
(01-29-2018, 02:58 PM)VLJ_imp Wrote: Guth, do you think the obvious change in the engine note—not the exhaust volume, but the additional crunchy texture so easily heard in the comparison videos, and felt throughout the bike—can be explained solely by a shorter inlet tract and a smaller exhaust system?
That doesn't sound very plausible to me.
It doesn’t seem plausible that changes to the only 2 places the engine emits noise could change said noise?
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RE: 2017 CB1100 EX First Ride Review - VLJ_imp - 01-29-2018
I'm kinda curious as to how my bike would fare on the dyno. Has anyone here dynoed their stock CB1100?
RE: 2017 CB1100 EX First Ride Review - Nortoon_imp - 01-29-2018
I noticed the buzz in the pegs of my EX and always felt it was the new mufflers. The buzz is always more noticeable when the mufflers are growling, or popping when down gearing into second and first.
RE: 2017 CB1100 EX First Ride Review - Flytech99_imp - 01-29-2018
(01-29-2018, 03:06 PM)PowerDubs_imp Wrote: Ecu does fuel and ign curves. As in advance or retard, nothing to do with staggering of the cam timing.
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Agreed! But, the articles I've seen specifically mention valve timing (not ignition timing) which would suggest a change in lift or duration. Speculating here, but mild cam lope in an inline motorcycle engine probably comes across as an amplified buzz at higher RPMs instead of low RPM burble.
Not saying it's true but there does seem to be some logic to how this "rumor" may have started....