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+--- Thread: Harley Livewire - who cares? (/showthread.php?tid=6835)
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - pekingduck - 07-03-2019
(07-03-2019, 04:34 AM)m in sc_imp Wrote: thats a good point duck. out of curiosity, however, the current cars available under 15k is abysmal. (i just looked it up out of curiosity. ) who lusts for Chevrolet spark or a yaris? -ech- (of course, im sure some people said the same thing about VWs back then).
I agree, they should make the livewire a loss leader in their line. would do a LOT to help their image.
Yeah, but a crappy Chevy Spark can get you there faster, cheaper, more reliably, more comfortably, won't leak oil or gas (or possibly catch fire), will go 100k miles with minor maintenance, has airbags, heater, radio, and air conditioning......
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - GoldOxide_imp - 07-03-2019
(07-03-2019, 12:49 AM)Novice_imp Wrote: Interesting discussion.
I don't know who a $30K electric bike is supposed to appeal to. Maybe to a wealthy environmentally conscious HD aficionado looking for a status symbol. Don't know how many of them are out there.
I've pretty much stopped in all of the MC shops around here that sell used bikes. I've found they are absolutely stacked with HD, to the point it's not fun anymore because it's all the same. People talk about the resale value of HD being high, and I hope so for their sake, but I have to wonder how long that will last, or if that's actually the case, just based on my observed supply of used bikes.
I never expect to get any residual value out of any dino-burning vehicle I buy - ever. They serve us, and therefore will be ground down to a nub.
I suspect antique collectibles are the exception due to their rarity and condition.
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - Novice_imp - 07-03-2019
I can't help but wish HD had been able to follow the BMW model for innovation. I have no doubt when BMW added the flying brick to their flat twin line some traditionalists thought it was the apocalypse. Somehow they managed to stay afloat and thrive. Today they even have one of the best I4 engines out there as far as performance goes and they still sell twins. Why HD has not been able to do that I don't know. Was it us in the market? Was it them? I don't know. I wish HD well in the future and hope things don't collapse.
Harley Livewire - who cares? - Cormanus - 07-03-2019
None of us really wants any manufacturer to collapse. The less competition, the less innovation, the fewer choices, and greater cost.
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - Houtman_imp - 07-04-2019
Thanks for the link to the article , interesting.
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - pekingduck - 07-04-2019
The article said that revenue is up at HD, meaning gross sales. That includes all branding, all clothing, all licensed products too, and that is a major source of income for them. But that's not the same as profit.
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - pekingduck - 07-04-2019
I read it differently, but it may be that the article wasn't clear. Regardless, they made money. A matter of semantics.
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - GoldOxide_imp - 07-04-2019
HD must be making money since 99% of the time I only see new models on the road.
That said, on the weekend I met up with a farmer who just had his '77 HD Superglide engine/gearbox rebuilt for $15K Cdn. A very rough 'n' tumble and organically original sounding chain-driven museum beauty to be appreciated. He could of had the $15K used as a downpayment on a new HD, but instead chose to maintain his current ride and save the planet. It is alotta money for just the lump. I admire the passion.
As far as I am concerned, he can join in the pack of '70s Japanese bike owners any day for a group ride.
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - LongRanger_imp - 07-04-2019
HD is a public company (NYSE: HOG). Here are their results from the past year and over the past five years:
- For the year ended 12/31/2018, income from continuing operations was $531.5 million on consolidated revenue of $5.72 billion (profit margin of 9.3%). Worldwide retail sales decreased 6.1% vs. the prior year. The stock price on 12/31/2018 was $35.64, down from $51.49 on 12/31/2017 (a drop of 30.7%). The S&P 500 decreased 6.2% over the comparable 12-month period.
- For the year ended 12/31/2013, income from continuing operations was $623.9 million on consolidated revenue of $5.58 billion (profit margin of 11.2%). Worldwide retail sales increased 6.2% vs. the prior year. The stock price on 12/31/2018 was $35.64, down from $69.17 on 12/31/2013 (a drop of 48.4%) The S&P 500 increased 75.7% over the comparable 5-year period.
Unless HD's international expansion and Livewire introduction can lead to improved unit sales and profitablity, I'd suggest their best days are behind them.