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+--- Thread: No 2015 (/showthread.php?tid=2951)
RE: No 2015 - Toro5xi_imp - 06-21-2015
Capo thanks for pointing out how well the BMW R nine T is doing as well as some of the other retro/standard bikes. I would love to have the BMW but it is more than I want to spend.
The Bonneville's seem to be slowing down in sales at this point. My local dealer had a 2012 with 650 miles which he was only asking $6300 for. Took a long time to sell at what I thought was a great price. They also have had several prior year models each winter with large discounts.
In my opinion Honda did nothing to talk up the performance of the CB or solid ride. It is not a 10 second bike but high 11s in the quarter is plenty in my opinion.
From what I have read Honda spent quite a lot developing the CB. They may look at it as a sunk cost but I would think they would not give up on this platform yet. i think spreading this development cost over relatively few units is one reason why the CB seems slightly over priced compared to other bikes. This is all conjecture on my part and I was happy to pay this price for the CB.
I really like how the majority of posts on this site are just about enjoying the ride and making what ever modifications the owner finds appealing. I have been riding bikes for a long time and have never been very fast or even gone to the track but on a warm day just riding to the hardware or putzing around the neighborhood puts a smile on my face.
RE: No 2015 - the Ferret - 06-21-2015
Honda really has done nothing to inform much less promote this motorcycle which is surprising considering the things I have read from Honda regarding it's development.
On the other hand, the new Motorcyclist Magazine came in yesterday. A double page ad from Honda including riding gear on the Valkrie. 30 pages later another full page ad for the Valkrie. 10 pages later a full page ad for the F6B. Honda is in cruiser mode,and the CB1100 is not a cruiser.
RE: No 2015 - emptysea - 06-21-2015
...despite Killboy's categorizing it as such. LOL
so...how many CB1100s were sold compare to the Guzzis and BMWs mentioned? We do not know because Honda doesn't talk about it. We don't know if the CB1100 was a poor seller or if it was always intended on being a limited run..because Hnda doesn't talk about it. I suspect that Honda's next moves in the U.S. will be to jump further into the tourer/cruiser hybrid area and into the adv bike arena with more serious products in each, but what do I know? I'm just glad that I have my Cb1100, now with almost 18,000 relatively carefree miles on it.
RE: No 2015 - DAC - 06-21-2015
The Valk and F6B are high dollar bikes so maybe they need to move those more. Dunno.
Always thought the CB would be a great Bonnie competitor. It gets great comments whenever I'm out.
Just happy I got the chance to buy one.
RE: No 2015 - JustPassinThru_imp - 06-21-2015
(06-21-2015, 10:44 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Honda really has done nothing to inform much less promote this motorcycle which is surprising considering the things I have read from Honda regarding it's development.THIS.
On the other hand, the new Motorcyclist Magazine came in yesterday. A double page ad from Honda including riding gear on the Valkrie. 30 pages later another full page ad for the Valkrie. 10 pages later a full page ad for the F6B. Honda is in cruiser mode,and the CB1100 is not a cruiser.
It is really surprising, given the development of the bike...what they claim and frankly, what users SEE. It is not underthunk. It is well-engineered; bugs worked out...a lot of work in there.
And they bring it to the States...with NO marketing. A few buff-magazine reviews. WHERE are the ADVERTISEMENTS? The promotion deals?...not the chance deals on Cycle Trader, the DEALS?
Don't the Honda people know how to sell motorcycles anymore? They INVENTED the modern American cycle-marketing campaign. "You meet the nicest people..."
What HAPPENED? All this wasted effort.
RE: No 2015 - veech_imp - 06-22-2015
(06-20-2015, 09:15 PM)Capo_imp Wrote: I would point out that many of the CB1100's competitors (retro-ish standards) are doing well in the market, and that the segment the CB sits in is a strong one. Bonnie still sells well, Ducati Scrambler, BMW R-9T both over performed sales estimates. Even Guzzi keeps rolling out new iterations of the V7. The CB's modest US market success, or lack thereof, IMHO, can be attributed to two things. 1) The CB didn't quite meet the expectations of the intended market, and 2) Honda didn't do jack squat to market it properly.
It's a great bike that we all love. But I went into the new Honda dealer that opened adjacent to the Triumph shop here in NJ, and there wasn't a single bit of evidence that the CB ever existed. Next door, a full set of Bonnies merchandise, posters, and people straddling the bikes on the showroom floor.
While I think the lack of marketing is the biggest factor, I would also add another element: the CB11 was at a little higher price point than most of its competitors which certainly played a role. History has proven that people en mass are willing to compromise quality for a cheap price (VHS vs Betamax, MS DOS vs. Apple OS, etc.)
RE: No 2015 - JustPassinThru_imp - 06-22-2015
(06-22-2015, 12:32 AM)veech_imp Wrote:(06-20-2015, 09:15 PM)Capo_imp Wrote: I would point out that many of the CB1100's competitors (retro-ish standards) are doing well in the market, and that the segment the CB sits in is a strong one. Bonnie still sells well, Ducati Scrambler, BMW R-9T both over performed sales estimates. Even Guzzi keeps rolling out new iterations of the V7. The CB's modest US market success, or lack thereof, IMHO, can be attributed to two things. 1) The CB didn't quite meet the expectations of the intended market, and 2) Honda didn't do jack squat to market it properly.
It's a great bike that we all love. But I went into the new Honda dealer that opened adjacent to the Triumph shop here in NJ, and there wasn't a single bit of evidence that the CB ever existed. Next door, a full set of Bonnies merchandise, posters, and people straddling the bikes on the showroom floor.
While I think the lack of marketing is the biggest factor, I would also add another element: the CB11 was at a little higher price point than most of its competitors which certainly played a role. History has proven that people en mass are willing to compromise quality for a cheap price (VHS vs Betamax, MS DOS vs. Apple OS, etc.)
You know...that depends.
You mention VHS versus Betamax. BOTH were new entries into a new market; and BOTH had superior quality to television or home 8mm movies. The VHS was cheaper, so since people didn't know whether quality would be worth it...they bought.
But compare that to autos or motorcycles. The VW Beetle, for much of its 28-year run, was more expensive than bigger Detroit compacts. But it sold; and with minimal advertising. People knew cars and people knew what a low-quality car was. The Falcons and Novas and Ramblers of the era were low-quality cars (and the Valiant was tarred with that brush, although it was of a higher caliber). So, people paid more for quality.
When the Yugo hit this country, people assumed a European import would be a high-quality car. And, lower price!...sold like crazy its first half-year; but word got out fast. Even though it was just a little more than half the price of a Japanese import, they couldn't give them away.
Same with cycles today. Chinese clone touring scooters have been around for eight years. Remember the VOG? A Burgman 400 clone, with a Yamaha 250 cloned engine. EXACT same styling as the Suzuki. Better economy. Except...the thing was garbage, and not just in assembly. Inferior casting and metallurgy caused castastrophic failures.
The VOG, made by Xingyue, is gone now...some importers still have warehouses full; but mostly they've moved on. But Xingyue never sold it under its own name. Even so...now that the Chinese are getting more serious, they cannot make headway. Their legend precedes them.
So...quality CAN matter when people PERCEIVE it matters. I don't think price-point alone can account for the poor selling of the CB. I suspect it's more that it's just us grey-heads who remember the big UJMs; the new riders all remember the Ninjas.
RE: No 2015 - veech_imp - 06-22-2015
(06-22-2015, 01:43 AM)JustPassinThru_imp Wrote:(06-22-2015, 12:32 AM)veech_imp Wrote:(06-20-2015, 09:15 PM)Capo_imp Wrote: I would point out that many of the CB1100's competitors (retro-ish standards) are doing well in the market, and that the segment the CB sits in is a strong one. Bonnie still sells well, Ducati Scrambler, BMW R-9T both over performed sales estimates. Even Guzzi keeps rolling out new iterations of the V7. The CB's modest US market success, or lack thereof, IMHO, can be attributed to two things. 1) The CB didn't quite meet the expectations of the intended market, and 2) Honda didn't do jack squat to market it properly.
It's a great bike that we all love. But I went into the new Honda dealer that opened adjacent to the Triumph shop here in NJ, and there wasn't a single bit of evidence that the CB ever existed. Next door, a full set of Bonnies merchandise, posters, and people straddling the bikes on the showroom floor.
While I think the lack of marketing is the biggest factor, I would also add another element: the CB11 was at a little higher price point than most of its competitors which certainly played a role. History has proven that people en mass are willing to compromise quality for a cheap price (VHS vs Betamax, MS DOS vs. Apple OS, etc.)
You know...that depends.
You mention VHS versus Betamax. BOTH were new entries into a new market; and BOTH had superior quality to television or home 8mm movies. The VHS was cheaper, so since people didn't know whether quality would be worth it...they bought.
But compare that to autos or motorcycles. The VW Beetle, for much of its 28-year run, was more expensive than bigger Detroit compacts. But it sold; and with minimal advertising. People knew cars and people knew what a low-quality car was. The Falcons and Novas and Ramblers of the era were low-quality cars (and the Valiant was tarred with that brush, although it was of a higher caliber). So, people paid more for quality.
When the Yugo hit this country, people assumed a European import would be a high-quality car. And, lower price!...sold like crazy its first half-year; but word got out fast. Even though it was just a little more than half the price of a Japanese import, they couldn't give them away.
Same with cycles today. Chinese clone touring scooters have been around for eight years. Remember the VOG? A Burgman 400 clone, with a Yamaha 250 cloned engine. EXACT same styling as the Suzuki. Better economy. Except...the thing was garbage, and not just in assembly. Inferior casting and metallurgy caused castastrophic failures.
The VOG, made by Xingyue, is gone now...some importers still have warehouses full; but mostly they've moved on. But Xingyue never sold it under its own name. Even so...now that the Chinese are getting more serious, they cannot make headway. Their legend precedes them.
So...quality CAN matter when people PERCEIVE it matters. I don't think price-point alone can account for the poor selling of the CB. I suspect it's more that it's just us grey-heads who remember the big UJMs; the new riders all remember the Ninjas.
Those are all good points. I agree the price point will not account for it alone, but was only bringing it up as a factor that has not been really discussed here.
The VW in particular however is not exactly a fair comparison as that car has been around since WW2 and enjoyed a very large following. (I myself have owned MANY of them and in the old days would literally swap engines for people for a 12-pack of beer!) When that car first came out it was very cheap. Ferdinand Porche won the contract from Hitler for the 'Peoples Car' and with that subsidy from the German government, making them very affordable. 30 years later when Detroit started coming out with sub-compacts to compete with them during the oil crisis of the 70's their cars were priced cheaper to get market share, but they were garbage so they didn't last (enter the era of the Vega, Pacer, Gremlin, etc.)
I agree that quality does matter a great deal. It just has to either be a significant enough difference to be obvious or be around long enough for people to actually realize it is better. Everyone here is smart enough to know the difference as we have all put down our hard earned cash for one, but we are not the norm (we are special!) The two years the CB was available in the USA was not long enough to establish this foothold without significant marketing, which it did not get. When you consider that motorcycles are mainly considered luxury items these days, in a niche market, with many competing offerings, and during a basically depressed economy over the last number of years, it is not surprising the CB didn't last without advertising. Most people don't even know this bike exists, much less the value it represents.
RE: No 2015 - the Ferret - 06-22-2015
(06-22-2015, 01:43 AM)JustPassinThru_imp Wrote:(06-22-2015, 12:32 AM)veech_imp Wrote:(06-20-2015, 09:15 PM)Capo_imp Wrote: I would point out that many of the CB1100's competitors (retro-ish standards) are doing well in the market, and that the segment the CB sits in is a strong one. Bonnie still sells well, Ducati Scrambler, BMW R-9T both over performed sales estimates. Even Guzzi keeps rolling out new iterations of the V7. The CB's modest US market success, or lack thereof, IMHO, can be attributed to two things. 1) The CB didn't quite meet the expectations of the intended market, and 2) Honda didn't do jack squat to market it properly.
It's a great bike that we all love. But I went into the new Honda dealer that opened adjacent to the Triumph shop here in NJ, and there wasn't a single bit of evidence that the CB ever existed. Next door, a full set of Bonnies merchandise, posters, and people straddling the bikes on the showroom floor.
While I think the lack of marketing is the biggest factor, I would also add another element: the CB11 was at a little higher price point than most of its competitors which certainly played a role. History has proven that people en mass are willing to compromise quality for a cheap price (VHS vs Betamax, MS DOS vs. Apple OS, etc.)
You know...that depends.
You mention VHS versus Betamax. BOTH were new entries into a new market; and BOTH had superior quality to television or home 8mm movies. The VHS was cheaper, so since people didn't know whether quality would be worth it...they bought.
But compare that to autos or motorcycles. The VW Beetle, for much of its 28-year run, was more expensive than bigger Detroit compacts. But it sold; and with minimal advertising. People knew cars and people knew what a low-quality car was. The Falcons and Novas and Ramblers of the era were low-quality cars (and the Valiant was tarred with that brush, although it was of a higher caliber). So, people paid more for quality.
When the Yugo hit this country, people assumed a European import would be a high-quality car. And, lower price!...sold like crazy its first half-year; but word got out fast. Even though it was just a little more than half the price of a Japanese import, they couldn't give them away.
Same with cycles today. Chinese clone touring scooters have been around for eight years. Remember the VOG? A Burgman 400 clone, with a Yamaha 250 cloned engine. EXACT same styling as the Suzuki. Better economy. Except...the thing was garbage, and not just in assembly. Inferior casting and metallurgy caused castastrophic failures.
The VOG, made by Xingyue, is gone now...some importers still have warehouses full; but mostly they've moved on. But Xingyue never sold it under its own name. Even so...now that the Chinese are getting more serious, they cannot make headway. Their legend precedes them.
So...quality CAN matter when people PERCEIVE it matters. I don't think price-point alone can account for the poor selling of the CB. I suspect it's more that it's just us grey-heads who remember the big UJMs; the new riders all remember the Ninjas.
I like this statement for several reasons. My son has ridden my CB 1100 (in fact part of the way home the day I picked it up) and says it's a wonderful motorcycle, but if he were shopping for a new bike right now he would probably end up with an FJ-09 Yamaha. The CB just doesn't have the right look, horsepower or weight for him. (pretty sure he wouldn't mind me leaving it to him in the will though)
Conversely if my father were still alive and shopping for a new bike right now, I'm pretty sure I would find him at the Indian dealer sitting on a new Scout making vroom vroom noises. His first bike was an Indian Scout and I'm pretty sure on that appeal alone, he would be a buyer.
3 generations with 3 ideas of what a motorcycle should look like, how they should sound and how they should perform.
Wonder what kind of motorcycles grandsons Riley (2) and Tanner (4 months) will be into. probably make fun of their dads "retro" FJ-09 lol
RE: No 2015 - veech_imp - 06-22-2015
Very true. I guess its about what gets imprinted upon us during our formative years (usually around our teens.) Same thing happens with music...whatever was big in those days is probably your favorite music today!