(01-07-2018, 04:47 PM)Guth_imp Wrote: pdedse, you must have added your markedness theory comments after I saw your initial post. I'm not sure that I totally understand what it is that you're trying to explain, but at least it did get me thinking. Ever since i was a little kid, I've been hung up on the way things look. I pay attention to how almost everything has been designed, but cars and motorcycles in particular have always been of keen interest to me. In fact, I have a couple of books from my childhood that I've hung on to for many decades now.

- The Golden Guide to Sports Cars (published in 1966)
- Motorcycles, Knowledge Through Color (published in 1975)

(The Sports Car book shown in the photos is actually my backup copy that a friend purchased for me years ago as my original copy was marked up with my personal notes and highlights and then browsed to the point that it is now almost unusable.)

At any rate, if you look at my original Sports Car book, you can definitely tell pretty quickly what designs appealed to me (by way of my highlighting). By the time I acquired the Motorcycle book, I had stopped drawing in my books. But I can still remember which bikes featured in the book really appealed to me way back then. Now here I am over four decades later and what do I own? A sports car and motorcycles of course, lol. I'm certain that if I took photos of the car and the bikes that I own today and I were able to send them back in time to my little kid self, I would have loved the way they looked without knowing anything else about them. My mind had been programmed this kind of stuff long ago. I definitely have a bias.

Wile I love the way my CB1100 looks, I certainly don't consider it to be one of the most absolutely beautiful motorcycles ever made. It should be obvious by now that I dig it, but it can't compare to something like a number of the late 60's Triumphs. But my dad was a Honda guy, so I tended to pay more attention to Hondas when I was a kid. Amongst the old CBs that really stand out for me are the 1970 CB350 (my dad owned one), the first CB400F that I ever laid eyes on in person (my dad and i both admired that one quite a bit) and then on to the CB750F and CB900F of the early 80s. There are others of course — I personally paid more attention to dirt bikes back then. But motorcycles in general always tended to catch my eye (along with cars).

If we are simply comparing motorcycles that are available today, then the I must admit that I find the CB1100 to be like a fine jewel. The way Honda went about designing and building this bike, it reminds me of a fine mechanical watch amongst a sea of really nice quartz watches. The quartz watches perform better, but there's an inherit beauty to the mechanical watch that is hard to define. By today's design standards, I find this bike to be amazing because it comes the closest in terms of looks and appeal of those bikes that appealed to me when I first became aware of motorcycles. I'm guessing that might have something to do with markedness theory, but I'm not really sure.

(01-08-2018, 12:36 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Guth back in the beginning of the forum we had a member that had corresponded with Mr Kohama if memory serves me and had recieved hand written letters.

Found it.. Nhawk7504 post 3 so it must be possible to contact him

http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4403&highlight=Kohama

(01-08-2018, 12:36 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Guth back in the beginning of the forum we had a member that had corresponded with Mr Kohama if memory serves me and had recieved hand written letters.

Found it.. Nhawk7504 post 3 so it must be possible to contact him

http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4403&highlight=Kohama

(01-08-2018, 01:05 AM)CA200_imp Wrote: Guth so glad to see you had a early fondness of sports cars, I did also (because my older brothers always had car mags. around the house) I was way to young to drive but could
cheat by getting a motorbike. Did have a couple sport cars but that's another subject .

(01-08-2018, 01:49 AM)LongRanger_imp Wrote: In society, markedness, by its own definition, is necessarily fluid. We each have our own first experiences at different times. Therefore, the CB's of the 1970's, which many of us identify as "real motorcycles," can never be identified as "real motorcycles" to a teen growing up today. His influence, his reference point, is contemporary. Instead, the plastic-shrouded, tail-in-the-air street fighter will be his "real motorcycle," and our beloved CB's will appear as relics. I suppose in the same way that I view a Vincent or early BMW with a heavy Earles fork as a relic.

(01-08-2018, 12:51 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Also to pdese's point as I understand it.. The marked thing means normal to the person doing the describing. As in his example describe a bird, ... Small, covered in feathers, some color, flys, eats worms would be his description of a bird. Yet a penguin is also a bird.. Useless wings, doesn't fly, no feathers, no color, swims eats fish. Yes the penguin is a bird, but it's not what comes to his mind when asked to describe a bird. You may get the exact opposite if you ask an inuit lol

His norm or marked thingy for a motorcycle is sit up, round headlight, flat seat, no plastic...like a CB1100, yet a lay down, crotch rocket, low bars, covered in plastic is also a motorcycle... But it is not the norm that he would describe to someone.

You know I was big into archery. My father was a bowyer and tought me the craft. One day in the early 70's I bought one of the new fangled compound bows with wheels and cables and brought it home. My dad took a look at it and said what is that? I replied its a bow. And he snorted in derision thats not a bow. Truth is it was, but it didn't resemble the graceful wood long bows my dad was used to making and shooting, therefore he didn't recognize it as such. CB vs Ninja

Just another way of saying bias's or preferences.

(01-08-2018, 01:49 AM)LongRanger_imp Wrote: In society, markedness, by its own definition, is necessarily fluid. We each have our own first experiences at different times. Therefore, the CB's of the 1970's, which many of us identify as "real motorcycles," can never be identified as "real motorcycles" to a teen growing up today. His influence, his reference point, is contemporary. Instead, the plastic-shrouded, tail-in-the-air street fighter will be his "real motorcycle," and our beloved CB's will appear as relics. I suppose in the same way that I view a Vincent or early BMW with a heavy Earles fork as a relic.