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+--- Thread: Oil Change 2700 miles (/showthread.php?tid=5985)
RE: Oil Change 2700 miles - _imp - 11-28-2013
(11-28-2013, 08:08 AM)Greg Davis_imp Wrote: frequent oil changes, are the key, any good quality oil, 10-30 or 10-40 frequency is more important than brand of oil.
Absolutely wrong.Couldn't be father from reality.
if one uses a car oil that isn't formulated for motorcycles
where sheer properties are addressed as well wet clutch
then the engine and gearbox will suffer.
Frequency is like saying i'll get the most basic of spark plugs
and then just change them out every couple years.
WRONG. You get the best plugs available for yer bike.They should
last a decade.Often longer.
Like a battery.Don't skimp and get a cheap battery.
Get the best battery you can afford { Yuasa } and it will
last at least 5 years.
RE: Oil Change 2700 miles - rboe - 11-28-2013
(11-28-2013, 08:08 AM)Greg Davis_imp Wrote: frequent oil changes, are the key, any good quality oil, 10-30 or 10-40 frequency is more important than brand of oil.
In my experience this has been true. I tend to use good oils to what I think are very good oil (and I think it is unsaid but understood the oil has to be compatible with a wet clutch). But a good quality yak fat, changed often, will suit the motor just fine.
The inverse is also true, if you don't change the oil often enough, good oil or not, is not good for your motor at all. One of the big bike mags did an article on this very thing in 82 or 83 using a Kawasaki 550. They didn't change the oil, past the first service, for 10,000 miles which was typical for that bike. 150lbs of compression at 10K. My bike, a KZ550, changed the syn-blend oil every 2000 miles (and filter) had 190+ in each cylinder at 25,000 miles. Freq. matters.
RE: Oil Change 2700 miles - Mr Jangles_imp - 07-20-2014
(11-22-2013, 02:34 PM)_imp Wrote:(11-22-2013, 02:10 PM)Deanohh_imp Wrote: All the oil passes through the oil cooler all the time. Oil doesn't drain out of the oil cooler when drained from the engine and its not supposed to. If you had to wait after the oil change for the cooler to fill up with oil the engine would be starved for oil while the cooler was being refilled by the oil pump.
The oil cooler is a critical component in the cooling of the engine. Oil has to circulate freely to carry heat out of the engine and into the oil cooler and bring the cooled oil back to the engine. If you put a bunch of thick slow moving oil in the system then it is not going to circulate as good and not cool as good as a thinner oil. You fill it with a heavy 10w40 or 20w50 and it will be worse for its ability to help the engine run cooler. I'll stick with the 10w30.
Being thinner and slipperier ( if it is), a synthetic 10w30 would be even better for helping to cool the engine because of its better circulation to dissipate heat, and still have excellent lubrication.
If you mixed 5 qts of 10w40 with half a quart of 10w30, would you end up with 5.5 quarts of 10w38?
No argument that when an engine goes w/o oil,even if only
a few seconds,it can cause damage.So a complely empty oil cooler would deprive the engine whatever amount it takes to run.
meaning about a quart low.That is why maybe Honda should have
put a temp gauge for the oil cooler to show how it is cooling.
A thermostat at least.Which I'm sure is somewhere within the unit.
The entire reason Harley run on 20w-50 { thicker oil } is in
helping to cool the engine when it gets hot,like in the summer months.
I think you've got it ass backwards.10w-30 would be better for
cooler months and easier starting.because in cooler months a
bike doesn't require cooling as much as in the dead of summer.
I don't think lighter weight fluid { 10w-30 } flowing easier
translates into the oil cooler being more efficient for cooling.
Easier flowing oil would also be more suspectible to degradation
and evaporation due to heat transfer.Lighter weight oil would
heat faster ... got it.
No argument that when an engine goes w/o oil,even if only
a few seconds,it can cause damage.So a complely empty oil cooler would deprive the engine whatever amount it takes to run.
meaning about a quart low.That is why maybe Honda should have
put a temp gauge for the oil cooler to show how it is cooling.
A thermostat at least.Which I'm sure is somewhere within the unit.
The entire reason Harley run on 20w-50 { thicker oil } is in
helping to cool the engine when it gets hot,like in the summer months.
I think you've got it ass backwards.10w-30 would be better for
cooler months and easier starting.because in cooler months a
bike doesn't require cooling as much as in the dead of summer.
I don't think lighter weight fluid { 10w-30 } flowing easier
translates into the oil cooler being more efficient for cooling.
Easier flowing oil would also be more suspectible to degradation
and evaporation due to heat transfer.Lighter weight oil would
heat faster ... got it.
Oil is like pancake syrup, did you ever put your syrup in the microwave? It flows like water when hot, that ain't good for motors the reason they use 20-50 in Harleys is when there hot the oil won't break down and get as watery. DO this, in summer run 10-40 and in winter run 10-30 viola!
RE: Oil Change 2700 miles - Dakota_imp - 07-27-2014
(11-22-2013, 02:10 PM)Deanohh_imp Wrote: All the oil passes through the oil cooler all the time. Oil doesn't drain out of the oil cooler when drained from the engine and its not supposed to. If you had to wait after the oil change for the cooler to fill up with oil the engine would be starved for oil while the cooler was being refilled by the oil pump.
The oil cooler is a critical component in the cooling of the engine. Oil has to circulate freely to carry heat out of the engine and into the oil cooler and bring the cooled oil back to the engine. If you put a bunch of thick slow moving oil in the system then it is not going to circulate as good and not cool as good as a thinner oil. You fill it with a heavy 10w40 or 20w50 and it will be worse for its ability to help the engine run cooler. I'll stick with the 10w30.
Being thinner and slipperier ( if it is), a synthetic 10w30 would be even better for helping to cool the engine because of its better circulation to dissipate heat, and still have excellent lubrication.
If you mixed 5 qts of 10w40 with half a quart of 10w30, would you end up with 5.5 quarts of 10w38?
There are two oil pumps and two separate circuits. You wouldn't starve the bearing IF it drained out of the cooler.
RE: Oil Change 2700 miles - Deanohh_imp - 07-27-2014
(07-27-2014, 12:07 PM)Dakota_imp Wrote:(11-22-2013, 02:10 PM)Deanohh_imp Wrote: All the oil passes through the oil cooler all the time. Oil doesn't drain out of the oil cooler when drained from the engine and its not supposed to. If you had to wait after the oil change for the cooler to fill up with oil the engine would be starved for oil while the cooler was being refilled by the oil pump.
The oil cooler is a critical component in the cooling of the engine. Oil has to circulate freely to carry heat out of the engine and into the oil cooler and bring the cooled oil back to the engine. If you put a bunch of thick slow moving oil in the system then it is not going to circulate as good and not cool as good as a thinner oil. You fill it with a heavy 10w40 or 20w50 and it will be worse for its ability to help the engine run cooler. I'll stick with the 10w30.
Being thinner and slipperier ( if it is), a synthetic 10w30 would be even better for helping to cool the engine because of its better circulation to dissipate heat, and still have excellent lubrication.
If you mixed 5 qts of 10w40 with half a quart of 10w30, would you end up with 5.5 quarts of 10w38?
There are two oil pumps and two separate circuits. You wouldn't starve the bearing IF it drained out of the cooler.
There are two oil pumps and two separate circuits. You wouldn't starve the bearing IF it drained out of the cooler.
whatever you say. Nobody cares about this anymore anyway.
RE: Oil Change 2700 miles - Dakota_imp - 07-28-2014
(07-27-2014, 03:00 PM)Deanohh_imp Wrote:(07-27-2014, 12:07 PM)Dakota_imp Wrote:(11-22-2013, 02:10 PM)Deanohh_imp Wrote: All the oil passes through the oil cooler all the time. Oil doesn't drain out of the oil cooler when drained from the engine and its not supposed to. If you had to wait after the oil change for the cooler to fill up with oil the engine would be starved for oil while the cooler was being refilled by the oil pump.
The oil cooler is a critical component in the cooling of the engine. Oil has to circulate freely to carry heat out of the engine and into the oil cooler and bring the cooled oil back to the engine. If you put a bunch of thick slow moving oil in the system then it is not going to circulate as good and not cool as good as a thinner oil. You fill it with a heavy 10w40 or 20w50 and it will be worse for its ability to help the engine run cooler. I'll stick with the 10w30.
Being thinner and slipperier ( if it is), a synthetic 10w30 would be even better for helping to cool the engine because of its better circulation to dissipate heat, and still have excellent lubrication.
If you mixed 5 qts of 10w40 with half a quart of 10w30, would you end up with 5.5 quarts of 10w38?
There are two oil pumps and two separate circuits. You wouldn't starve the bearing IF it drained out of the cooler.
There are two oil pumps and two separate circuits. You wouldn't starve the bearing IF it drained out of the cooler.
whatever you say. Nobody cares about this anymore anyway.
There are two oil pumps and two separate circuits. You wouldn't starve the bearing IF it drained out of the cooler.
whatever you say. Nobody cares about this anymore anyway.
You cared enough to post a reply.
Didn't mean to hurt your feelings; just trying to clear up a misconception.
RE: Oil Change 2700 miles - Deanohh_imp - 07-28-2014
No worries. Thought there was something downstream from the cooler but my CB and the manual with the lube diagram is gone and few if any will ever drain the cooler so its a moot point.
Mineral versus synthetic - thessler3_imp - 07-29-2014
The viscosity of a multi-grade oil like 10W30 or 20W50 changes with temperature. Viscosity is simply the ability of an oil to flow. The first number/letter, eg. 10W is the viscosity in winter temperatures and the second number is the viscosity at high temperatures.
Misconceptions:
1) oil viscosity has nothing to do with its ability to carry away heat or cool an engine.
2) Oil viscosity has little to do with its ability to reduce friction.
3) Harleys and some other bikes generate very high cylinder head temperatures, especially near the exhaust valve. Using a 20W50 weight oil supposedly allows the engine to better tolerate those high temperatures. However, that may be simply due to old fashioned thinking. Indy racers typically run very low (0W) viscosity oil to get faster flow thru the engine and coolers and require less power to pump the oil.
4) Synthetic oil is not necessarily "slicker" than petroleum oil. That capability is largely a factor of the friction modifier additives in the oil. The main benefits of synthetic is the ability to tolerate extreme temperatures and the ability to not break down over time.
RE: Mineral versus synthetic - Dakota_imp - 07-29-2014
(07-29-2014, 10:32 AM)thessler3_imp Wrote: The viscosity of a multi-grade oil like 10W30 or 20W50 changes with temperature. Viscosity is simply the ability of an oil to flow. The first number/letter, eg. 10W is the viscosity in winter temperatures and the second number is the viscosity at high temperatures.
Misconceptions:
1) oil viscosity has nothing to do with its ability to carry away heat or cool an engine.
2) Oil viscosity has little to do with its ability to reduce friction.
3) Harleys and some other bikes generate very high cylinder head temperatures, especially near the exhaust valve. Using a 20W50 weight oil supposedly allows the engine to better tolerate those high temperatures. However, that may be simply due to old fashioned thinking. Indy racers typically run very low (0W) viscosity oil to get faster flow thru the engine and coolers and require less power to pump the oil.
4) Synthetic oil is not necessarily "slicker" than petroleum oil. That capability is largely a factor of the friction modifier additives in the oil. The main benefits of synthetic is the ability to tolerate extreme temperatures and the ability to not break down over time.
I don't know that I agree with that. The higher the viscosity, the greater the head, and the lower the coolant flow. I would also guess that a higher viscosity would have less turbulent flow which would reduce cooling effectiveness.
Found an article that discusses the improved effectiveness of lower viscosity oil due to turbulent flow: http://www.nynas.com/Segment/Transformer-oils/Knowledge-Tank/Technical-papers/Viscosity-of-oil-important-in-transformer-cooling/
It is for transformer cooling but the science is the same:
Heat exchange factor is important
The heat exchange factor plays an important role in the cooling of a transformer. It is actually a matter of heat exchange between the oil and the windings. This factor is highly affected by viscosity. The Reynolds number (Re) is the parameter that is used as a measure of the heat exchange factor in the transformer industry.
The Re value also shows whether the oil flow is laminar or turbulent. Laminar flow means that there is an even layer of oil along the boundary between windings and oil. In a turbulent flow this layer is disturbed and the oil is constantly mixed, so that new parts of the oil phase continuously come into contact with the windings. This means that cooling is much more effective with a turbulent flow.
The connection between Re, flow speed and viscosity can be represented thus:
The lower the viscosity, the higher the Re value. When Re is higher than 2300 there is a turbulent flow.
RE: Oil Change 2700 miles - rmack_imp - 07-29-2014
I have watched these oil threads for so long and here is my 2 bobs worth, use Honda hp4 10w 30 and that's it rain hail or shine end of story all this nonsense I here all day long at work plain and simple use hp4.
Weekly we service so many Honda machines from race bikes / mx bikes etc you will find gear changing etc miles ahead with this stuff Honda didn't just decide hay we will sell this stuff and se how it goes