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+--- Thread: Why have kick starters gone extinct? (/showthread.php?tid=2443)
RE: Why have kick starters gone extinct? - furious_blue_imp - 06-30-2015
FWIW, the lever arm on the SOHC CB750 is so long that you can 'kick' start it using your hand instead of your foot.
Was quite the sales floor gimmick I've heard..
".. and if the electric starter ever fails... it's so easy, you can start it using your hand on the kickstarter ! "
RE: Why have kick starters gone extinct? - flynrider - 06-30-2015
(06-29-2015, 12:01 PM)ChipBeck_imp Wrote: Gentlemen,
Kick starting a big motorcycle engine is a lost art now. My old Honda XL600 single was a b**ch to start when it was hot after a crash. Especially in deep sand or on the side of a steep hill. Sometimes I thought I'd have a heart attack before that thing lit up. I don't miss that. In 1983 I had a new Pitts Special S-1T aerobatic aircraft built with a 360 C.I. fuel injected Lycoming engine. To save weight I had it built without a starter, battery, or alternator. It had two magnetos and needed to be hand propped to start it. It was common back then and most akro pilots were comfortable propping their friends planes but today it seems suicidal. Last football season I found myself with a dead battery in Texas and I had my girlfriend stand on the brakes while I hand propped the massive 540 C.I. Lycoming in my Glasair III to life. The line personnel thought I was insane.
Electric starters are a wonderful thing when they work which is most of the time.
Chip
I got the same reaction last year when the starter bendix on my O-360 gave out while on vacation. I hand propped for a week while traveling around and got looks like I was nuts. My first plane was a '59 172 with the anemic 20 amp generator and tiny battery. I hand propped that almost as much as I used the electric start.
It's always nice to have a backup plan!
(06-29-2015, 11:54 PM)4 Paws_imp Wrote: My Ural has a kick-start, use it some for the fun of it. Charging system on that Russian marvel of 18th century engineering quite robust. Weight considerations laughable too.
On these retro styled bikes the kick start does add a touch of panache.
There is a documented trick to starting a totally dead EFI system using a common 9 volt battery to power up the system, some simple jumpers and bump starting the dead bike.
Worth learning. Search Utube.
This is usually only necessary if the battery is completely dead. The ECU/EFI computers require very little juice, so this works well if you get the wiring right. Of course, if the alternator is a type that requires juice to excite the primary field it's not going to make electricity, so you better make it home before the 9v battery dies.
RE: Why have kick starters gone extinct? - kennyw - 06-30-2015
(06-30-2015, 10:29 AM)Flynrider_imp Wrote:The 9V battery should be enough to excite the field.(06-29-2015, 12:01 PM)ChipBeck_imp Wrote: Gentlemen,
Kick starting a big motorcycle engine is a lost art now. My old Honda XL600 single was a b**ch to start when it was hot after a crash. Especially in deep sand or on the side of a steep hill. Sometimes I thought I'd have a heart attack before that thing lit up. I don't miss that. In 1983 I had a new Pitts Special S-1T aerobatic aircraft built with a 360 C.I. fuel injected Lycoming engine. To save weight I had it built without a starter, battery, or alternator. It had two magnetos and needed to be hand propped to start it. It was common back then and most akro pilots were comfortable propping their friends planes but today it seems suicidal. Last football season I found myself with a dead battery in Texas and I had my girlfriend stand on the brakes while I hand propped the massive 540 C.I. Lycoming in my Glasair III to life. The line personnel thought I was insane.
Electric starters are a wonderful thing when they work which is most of the time.
Chip
I got the same reaction last year when the starter bendix on my O-360 gave out while on vacation. I hand propped for a week while traveling around and got looks like I was nuts. My first plane was a '59 172 with the anemic 20 amp generator and tiny battery. I hand propped that almost as much as I used the electric start.
It's always nice to have a backup plan!
(06-29-2015, 11:54 PM)4 Paws_imp Wrote: My Ural has a kick-start, use it some for the fun of it. Charging system on that Russian marvel of 18th century engineering quite robust. Weight considerations laughable too.
On these retro styled bikes the kick start does add a touch of panache.
There is a documented trick to starting a totally dead EFI system using a common 9 volt battery to power up the system, some simple jumpers and bump starting the dead bike.
Worth learning. Search Utube.
This is usually only necessary if the battery is completely dead. The ECU/EFI computers require very little juice, so this works well if you get the wiring right. Of course, if the alternator is a type that requires juice to excite the primary field it's not going to make electricity, so you better make it home before the 9v battery dies.
RE: Why have kick starters gone extinct? - puffnlola_imp - 06-30-2015
I was thinking....it was because someone tried to kick start a "74" 360 bulltaco with the timing advanced like 2°.....my ankle still hurts when I think about that :'(
RE: Why have kick starters gone extinct? - DaSwami_imp - 06-30-2015
Picking up a SR400 in a couple of days that is kick start ONLY.
The bike has NOT been a commercial success.....I'm guessing the high price and no e-start are the culprits
RE: Why have kick starters gone extinct? - Captain Klutz_imp - 07-01-2015
The CB 250 I learned riding with for the first two years had a kick starter (and electric). I always kicked it into life because that's what real men do.
Today, I'd buy a fake kick starter for the EX immediately if it could be wired to electro-start the engine with a bit of noise. Not much extra weight, but all the fun!
RE: Why have kick starters gone extinct? - furious_blue_imp - 07-01-2015
(06-30-2015, 03:45 PM)DaSwami_imp Wrote: Picking up a SR400 in a couple of days that is kick start ONLY.
The bike has NOT been a commercial success.....I'm guessing the high price and no e-start are the culprits
I'd like to hear how it is to kickstart. I've noticed the Japanese promo videos that show a fashionably dressed young lady kicking her SR400 with disdainful non-chalance (sp), then off on her way....
I've only seen one in the wild so far.. looks really good on the road.
RE: Why have kick starters gone extinct? - the_undecider_imp - 07-01-2015
(06-30-2015, 03:45 PM)DaSwami_imp Wrote: Picking up a SR400 in a couple of days that is kick start ONLY.
The bike has NOT been a commercial success.....I'm guessing the high price and no e-start are the culprits
I think you nailed it. If they've been making this bike all these years with minimal changes, seems the tooling costs were largely amortized and they would be able to hit a much lower price point. $6k will buy you more bike than what the SR400 offers, on paper anyway.
Most beginners needs the magic button on the handlebar. I can imagine a new rider getting easily flustered by stalling out in heavy traffic and having to kick it over while impatient, aggressive cagers are honking and bearing down. I was riding my XL175 the other night when it just died at a red light. Car behind me starts trying to maneuver around me when the light was still red! I get it fired up right away just as the light goes green and I blast off with the fury of 9 horsepower!
I wouldn't mind having a scramblered SR bombing around town.
RE: Why have kick starters gone extinct? - flynrider - 07-01-2015
(07-01-2015, 03:18 AM)Captain Klutz_imp Wrote: The CB 250 I learned riding with for the first two years had a kick starter (and electric). I always kicked it into life because that's what real men do.
Today, I'd buy a fake kick starter for the EX immediately if it could be wired to electro-start the engine with a bit of noise. Not much extra weight, but all the fun!
Fake kick starter you say?
Reminded me of the bike they built for the Walking Dead TV show. I immediately recognized the CB750 Nighthawk engine (I have one), but was thrown by the presence of a kick starter. When I compared the pic to my bike, I realized that the is nothing but air behind the base of that kickstarter. 
![[Image: e38f28281cfe291ed30a2ec056cf7b3f.jpg]](https://cb1100forum.net/forum/uploads/imp/201507/e38f28281cfe291ed30a2ec056cf7b3f.jpg)
RE: Why have kick starters gone extinct? - Novice_imp - 07-01-2015
I like the idea of a kick starter in a apocalypse prep-per prepared for anything kind of way. The truth is, I haven't kickstarted anything more than a Suzuki DS-80 and from what I've read about decompression buttons etc, I would probably just embarrass myself. So maybe I should just be thankful for electric start.