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+--- Thread: Harley Livewire - who cares? (/showthread.php?tid=6835)
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - pekingduck - 06-30-2019
(06-30-2019, 09:43 AM)m in sc_imp Wrote: i'd take a zero anyday over that thing. having ridden a few they are ok, and they certainly look more modern and flow better (opinion).
I certainly have issues with the company. they havent r&d'd anything noteworthy for decades. everything is massively over priced, and they sell strictly on false nostalgia, so many of the components are from asia its ridiculous. they could have made them here but nope.
as far as ford goes, ford has been a global company for many many decades, and they have done a huge amount of development, same as GM. the reason they dropped sedans in the us is nobody was buying them, but they are alive and well in the world market, make no doubt.
liking a company strictly because its american is kinda pointless. I mean, look at indian. they actually are innovating and filling that nich quite well. they deserve the respect for moving forward in that market, even though its polaris...
willie g had a good run selling a lifestyle, but he dragged it out way too long out of complacency and permanently damaged the name. His ancestors would be rolling in their graves, as they were FOCUSED on innovation, HD lost their way. Maybe they can be reborn, like triumph, indian, etc. But i think it needs to die before it gets new life down the road.
with all the resources HD had, they should have been trying to develop the e bike 15 years ago, no excuses there. and those 'made in india' liquid cooled 500 & 750s they released a few years ago, while decent bikes, were basically copies of the old mid 80's honda shadows and BOMBED sales wise.
the examples above are the reason that it needs to die, they need to clear out the management and get some forward thinkers in there.
rant off.
I agree with what you say, but should point out that the US companies couldn't make a decent sedan since the '70s. Taurus, Tempo, Malibu, Cavalier, K-cars? All gone. 30 year old Corollas and Civics? Still rolling.
So what are young people buying as first new cars? Honda Accords and Civics, Toyota Camrys and Corollas, Nissan Altimas and Sentras, Hyundai Sonatas, Kia Optimas. (Plus Audis and BMWs)
And what brands will their future cars be? Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, and Kia. Once they are used to the build quality, and most importantly, reliability, they aren't likely to switch.
Those $40-60K + Ford, GM and FCA trucks and SUVs are mostly bought by folks in their late 40s to mid-60s. See where this is going?
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - SportsterDoc - 06-30-2019
(06-30-2019, 09:43 AM)m in sc_imp Wrote: i'd take a zero anyday over that thing. having ridden a few they are ok, and they certainly look more modern and flow better (opinion).
I certainly have issues with the company. they havent r&d'd anything noteworthy for decades. everything is massively over priced, and they sell strictly on false nostalgia, so many of the components are from asia its ridiculous. they could have made them here but nope.
as far as ford goes, ford has been a global company for many many decades, and they have done a huge amount of development, same as GM. the reason they dropped sedans in the us is nobody was buying them, but they are alive and well in the world market, make no doubt.
liking a company strictly because its american is kinda pointless. I mean, look at indian. they actually are innovating and filling that nich quite well. they deserve the respect for moving forward in that market, even though its polaris...
willie g had a good run selling a lifestyle, but he dragged it out way too long out of complacency and permanently damaged the name. His ancestors would be rolling in their graves, as they were FOCUSED on innovation, HD lost their way. Maybe they can be reborn, like triumph, indian, etc. But i think it needs to die before it gets new life down the road.
with all the resources HD had, they should have been trying to develop the e bike 15 years ago, no excuses there. and those 'made in india' liquid cooled 500 & 750s they released a few years ago, while decent bikes, were basically copies of the old mid 80's honda shadows and BOMBED sales wise.
the examples above are the reason that it needs to die, they need to clear out the management and get some forward thinkers in there.
rant off.
Not "everything". Compare prices on a CB1100 stator versus one for a Sportster...or other common maintenance items.
I lost interest in H-D when the standard height Sportster was discontinued, but remain a post-ironhead EVO Sportster (1986-2003) fan.
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - GoldOxide_imp - 06-30-2019
It could help if HD got back to its roots and develop for a purpose: Alternative, economical and fun transportation.
GM did it by putting faith into Saturn and got the division into the black before business ultimately pulled the plug. Producing cars is a hard business, as Elon Musk has said on many occasions. I gotta think rolling out a smart line of bike transportation is less risky. Just my 2 cents.
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - SportsterDoc - 07-01-2019
I paid $7,000 ($7,700 list) for a New Triumph Bonneville in 2012.
Supurb build quality, over 112 MPH from 865cc parallel twin.
Left it stock other than blocking air induction and snorkle removal.
Almost as narrow as a Sportster.
And the local dealer had a touring seat for it...but I should have bought that seat BEFORE I rode it 300 miles across the desert.
I think 2013 was last of air cooled.
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - pekingduck - 07-01-2019
M in SC wrote:
i disagree with the demographic on trucks and suvs. just look at them in traffic & whos driving. guy i work with is on his second new king cab f150, hes 37. 1st one was wrecked.
The market share of trucks and SUVs is certainly increasing, at the expense of minivans and sedans, but it still is a huge market. Chrysler (FCA) makes the the only US minivan. Most of the SUVs are Japanese or Korean. The European designed Ford Transits have taken over the commercial van market. The US only really dominates in heavy trucks. For now.
The point I was trying to make about younger drivers was that for most, their first cars, new or used, was with Japanese or Korean sedans. It's a powerful influencer of brand loyalty that US manufacturers may have relinquished.
In a lifetime, how many NEW cars does a person buy? 5 or 6 or 10? Remember, manufacturers only make money on new cars.
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - SportsterDoc - 07-01-2019
(06-30-2019, 12:49 PM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: It could help if HD got back to its roots and develop for a purpose: Alternative, economical and fun transportation.
GM did it by putting faith into Saturn and got the division into the black before business ultimately pulled the plug. Producing cars is a hard business, as Elon Musk has said on many occasions. I gotta think rolling out a smart line of bike transportation is less risky. Just my 2 cents.
2004 up gained weight after motor mounts rubberized and I do not like the handlebars, but the Sportster Roadster is
76 ft lbs torque at only 3,750 RPM
551 lbs dry / 571 lbs wet
Lean angles that EXCEED 30 degrees
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/2019/sportster/roadster.html
Not all Harleys are Road Kings
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - pekingduck - 07-01-2019
I agree that most new car dealers make most of their from service, but it's mostly from warranty work, both factory and aftermarket. The other gold mine is a fixed-term rental, better known as leasing.
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - the Ferret - 07-01-2019
m in c ....What is the difference functionally between a Buick Tour X and a Subaru Forester or Outback , or a Honda CRV, or a Rav 4 Toyota for that matter?
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - the Ferret - 07-01-2019
Yea I can see after watching the video how it's more a sedan than an SUV
"with it's price of under $40K makes it a value in the luxury wagon class"
Holy cow, I can't get used to cars costing $40K
on the bright side it's just a few thou more than a Livewire lol
RE: Harley Livewire - who cares? - pekingduck - 07-01-2019
(07-01-2019, 05:26 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: m in c ....What is the difference functionally between a Buick Tour X and a Subaru Forester or Outback , or a Honda CRV, or a Rav 4 Toyota for that matter?
The smaller SUVs you list are a bit higher off the ground than a sedan, so for shorter than average drivers, it's a challenge getting in.
Wagons like the Buick TourX and Ford Flex are car height, with a broader cargo area surface. Cargo volume doesn't matter, it's the floor area. Dogs don't stack well.
More importantly, they have a lower cargo load height, so smaller and/or older dogs can jump in more easily. Having to lift an older 50-100 pound dog up into an SUV gets old fast. Folding dog ramps have become a very popular accessory for SUV owners.