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+--- Thread: trying to put a tire on for the first time. won't inflate? (/showthread.php?tid=4984)
trying to put a tire on for the first time. won't inflate? - chync_imp - 04-25-2019
My first tire change went the same way. But like anything else it just takes some experience and practice. There are techniques and tools that make the job easier. I heat my new tire by placing a hair dryer inside it while I’m unmounting the old one. It goes on like a soft glove. But it wasn’t until I replaced 3 sets of tires that it became much easier.
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By the way there are some great YouTube videos of people going step by step to do many common maintenance procedures. That is how I learned.
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RE: trying to put a tire on for the first time. won't inflate? - misterprofessionality - 04-25-2019
(04-25-2019, 09:43 PM)chync_imp Wrote: My first tire change went the same way. But like anything else it just takes some experience and practice. There are techniques and tools that make the job easier. I heat my new tire by placing a hair dryer inside it while I’m unmounting the old one. It goes on like a soft glove. But it wasn’t until I replaced 3 sets of tires that it became much easier.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
By the way there are some great YouTube videos of people going step by step to do many common maintenance procedures. That is how I learned.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
lol my friend i think if i attempted 3 sets of tire changes I would die on set number 2. There was a point yesterday where I was just laid out on my back on the garage floor. i literally could not move i was so exhausted. I've walked over 20 miles in summer heat with a backpack, i've moved my entire household on and off a 20 foot truck multiple times in my life by myself, i've unloaded semis full of cabinetry and into rich people's homes, I actually successfully got a honda RLET over a brake lever and i have NEVER done anything so arduous as putting on a rear tire of a motorcycle wheel.
as for the videos....they were kind of the source of the problem. really, it was trying to follow those videos that mislead me so terribly. they make no attempt to explain to you that you absolutely cannot do it without a full size air compressor. they make no attempt to explain the ratchet strap method. they make no attempt to explain to you just how impossibly difficult the levering of the tire over the rim actually is. they just slide the tire on like it's made of neoprene. What i needed was to watch a real person really do it in real life in front of me, then i would have understood all the intricacies before attempting it.
RE: trying to put a tire on for the first time. won't inflate? - Stichill - 04-25-2019
(04-25-2019, 06:37 PM)Cormanus_imp Wrote:Bit harsh, I think. My impression of Mr P is that he's not cheap; he's managing a motorcycle budget pretty carefully.(04-25-2019, 02:02 PM)Stichill_imp Wrote: Lol, my two Millennial kids are also unbelievably cheap.
If you don't want to spend money on even a low-end compressor, you could get an [url=http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Force-FT5-5-Gallon-Portable-Tank/dp/B002MKP5TM]air tank and fill it someplace with free compressed air. Maybe your little compressor could even pump it up and then you could use it to seat the tire bead.
+1 on Razor's tip to remove the Schrader valve (you'll need a special but - thankfully - cheap tool) and then just blast a high volume of air into the tire quickly to seat the bead.
BTW, check Facebook Marketplace for used compressors and air tanks. The prices are often ridiculously cheap.
Bit harsh, I think. My impression of Mr P is that he's not cheap; he's managing a motorcycle budget pretty carefully.
I didn't mean it to sound harsh. Objectively Mr P is cheap and is proud of it! He's right in his follow-up explanation; it's a trait of the successful among this generation. If you look at the younger folks who are financially stable and secure, it's the ones who are parsimonious who are thriving. I see the same behavior and same success in my own two kids. I think they wear being cheap as a badge of honor.
RE: trying to put a tire on for the first time. won't inflate? - Houtman_imp - 04-26-2019
It is important in life to know your own limits , otherwise it will cost you extra money. I hope that you are joking about lying and stealing to take things back to the store because it did not work as expected for YOU . Honesty is always the best way to deal with problems , if not it will back fire badly one day. Always do the right thing in life.
RE: trying to put a tire on for the first time. won't inflate? - misterprofessionality - 04-26-2019
well, thankfully it's online stores, who have a much harder time calling out BS. The correct methodology when returning something is to first attempt to return it without any explanation. Just say "here is your thing back. money please." 8 out of 10 times that will work. Some stores will take a moment and ask why, this is when you come up with a simple and likley explanation. "it doesn't work, it's ugly, it's not as described, it broke when i tried to use it." 1 out of 2 times this will work. finally, every now and again you'll get some busybody that wants to see a picture of how the tire iron was defective. This is when I put it in a vice and bend it real good and send them a picture of that.
either way, i get my money back. got to make the most of your failures, and a key part of that is minimzing the costs through any means necessary.
Here's some fun math on doing your own Tire installs. I'm just adding this to the thread for flavor, now that i've had the opportunity to fully assess the real costs of doing your own tires.
Cost of a Tire swap per set at my local shop: $40
vs.
Cost of basic Tire Irons: $12.00
Cost of Basic rim shields: $13.00 (one time use, so this is cost per tire)
Cost of Air compressor: $140.00 (using the example provided in this thread)
Cost of Tire Lube: $5.00 (i had to use so much of this that i might have enough left to do one more set of tires, so conisder this as 1/2 cost per set)
Cost of Trauma therapy to get over what you went through to lever the tire over the rim: incalculable
Putting the Therapy aside, that's a total cost of $170 for the first try at changing your own tire, and a cost of $28.50 per set for every set therafter.
with these awesome Michelin hoops i change my tires about every 15k miles (estimate) which is a little over a year's riding. This means i'd need to take my wheels to the shop for a tire change for FOUR STRAIGHT YEARS to even approach equivalency with the cost of doing it myself. if you consider that during that four years time, doing it myself would have had me spending an extra $28.50 per year. this means the total cost of self-changing over four years increases to $255.50, so in fact taking the wheels to the shop for a change doesn't even approach the cost of doing it myself. no, if you graph it, it comes to THIRTEEN YEARS before the cost of taking the wheel to the shop overtakes the cost of doing it myself.
that's bananas!! I think the Air compressor (the way things are made these days) would probably even have to be replaced in 13 years, meaning the shop costs will NEVER overtake the cost of doing it yourself. What a joke. I can't believe i was dumb enough to try this.
trying to put a tire on for the first time. won't inflate? - Pauley - 04-26-2019
I’ve been changing my own motorcycle tires for a while now. All the investment in tools has paid for itself. It takes a few times to get the technique down so it’s not such a chore any more. Still takes some muscle power but nothing like the wrestling match the first time I tried it. Getting the bead down in the rim groove is key. Knees and body weight help. Watch the brake disks so you don’t damage them. A good tire changing lube like Bead Butter or Bead Ease is key not only for getting the tires on and off the rim but to make the bead seat more easily. I have a cheap small compressor with a 1 gallon tank and that seats the beads like a charm with the lube. Never had to resort to the strap technique after starting to use lube.
RE: trying to put a tire on for the first time. won't inflate? - Guth_imp - 04-26-2019
(04-26-2019, 01:23 AM)Pauley_imp Wrote: I’ve been changing my own motorcycle tires for a while now. All the investment in tools has paid for itself. It takes a few times to get the technique down so it’s not such a chore any more. Still takes some muscle power but nothing like the wrestling match the first time I tried it. Getting the bead down in the rim groove is key. Knees and body weight help. Watch the brake disks so you don’t damage them. A good tire changing lube like Bead Butter or Bead Ease is key not only for getting the tires on and off the rim but to make the bead seat more easily. I have a cheap small compressor with a 1 gallon tank and that seats the beads like a charm with the lube. Never had to resort to the strap technique after starting to use lube.
As it is with so many things we choose to do ourselves, rather than paying someone else to do it for us. Generally speaking, for me working on things like motorcycles is as much a test of patience (and a reminder of the tools I might lack or want) as it is anything else. I'm not the most knowledgable of home mechanics and most of the time spent working in the garage is a learning experience. But working on my vehicles has actually been good for me in many ways and at times I'd even say therapeutic. (I sure can't say the same thing about working on my house.)
At the heart of the matter for many of us is that few are likely to pay as much care and attention to our motorcycles (or whatever else people might choose to work on) than ourselves. But ultimately if the interest isn't there and satisfaction is lacking from working on things ourselves then the effort rarely feels like it is worth the time and inconvenience.
RE: trying to put a tire on for the first time. won't inflate? - Rocky_imp - 04-26-2019
Struggling with a tubeless tire is not my idea of fun so I pull the wheel and take it to my friendly dealer.
If I buy the tire there they mount and balance it for a nominal fee and I'm out the door.
RE: trying to put a tire on for the first time. won't inflate? - Stichill - 04-26-2019
(04-25-2019, 09:08 PM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote:(04-25-2019, 01:15 PM)chync_imp Wrote: You should also lubricate the inside of the rim so the tire won’t stick making it harder to bead. You need to use something that won’t corrode the metal rim. Something that evaporates. And removing the valve stem is a must to get the tire bead to seat. When I do a good job of wetting the rim I don’t need a strap using an air compressor at home. But the tire strap works well.
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i used loads of lubricant, believe me. wasted an entire jar of the stuff. its supposed to be specifically for tire mounting. it still took me almost 4 hours to get it into place. probably the most backbreaking, insane thing i've ever physically done. i will NEVER attempt it again.
(04-25-2019, 02:02 PM)Stichill_imp Wrote: Lol, my two Millennial kids are also unbelievably cheap.
If you don't want to spend money on even a low-end compressor, you could get an air tank and fill it someplace with free compressed air. Maybe your little compressor could even pump it up and then you could use it to seat the tire bead.
+1 on Razor's tip to remove the Schrader valve (you'll need a special but - thankfully - cheap tool) and then just blast a high volume of air into the tire quickly to seat the bead.
BTW, check Facebook Marketplace for used compressors and air tanks. The prices are often ridiculously cheap.
lol. being cheap is a matter of survival for my generation. if i wasn't cheap i wouldn't have everything I have. thankfully I'm one year away from owning a home outright, i own my vehicles, i get vacations and work one professional job, and I have all of that because i'm cheap as all heck. i cut corners at every opportunity, lie, cheat, steal, and beg. i will never, ever, ever let one thin penny escape from my pocket if there was any other way to get around it, and it's because of that strength that i've been able to be successful where 75% of my generation has failed.
being cheap is actually what gave me the idea to try to mount this tire. i thought "the shop wants like $40 bucks to mount the tire...the guide says all i need are tire irons, rim shields, lubricants, and an inflator. i've already got the inflator, so that's an easy choice. i can spend $40 on tools right now and never spend $40 to mount a tire again."
yea...what the guides didn't tell me is what you guys are telling me now, that i absolutely have a 3-digit price-range air compressor, that i need to spend another 20-30 bucks on ratchet straps, and what i found out on my own that the rim shields will be totally demolished after the first use. right now i'm trying to make sure that my ignorance doesn't cost me any money. i'm going to tell some lies and return the tire iron tools after this is all over, and never attempt this crap again. clearly it's cheaper just to let the shop do it if you don't already have an air compressor.
(04-25-2019, 04:25 PM)jtopiso_imp Wrote:(04-25-2019, 11:26 AM)Houtman_imp Wrote: I used straps on tires for a wheel barrow and you need a lot of air FAST to set a tire on a rim , should not be that difficult.
You always have a "russian method" for anything, and it's always an effective (and dangerous) one.
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLtBojvDEyc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLtBojvDEyc
If somebody tries it, please make a video
that's awesome and gnarly, but needless to say I will not be attempting that. i spent enough money on my tire, i don't need to buy another one.
very cool to watch though. you're not the first person to suggest the fire method to me, but i hadn't actually seen it done before.
(04-25-2019, 06:40 PM)max_imp Wrote: MP, have you tried removing the valve insert and inflating, setting the bead that way like razor mentions
Worked for me last time at the local fuel stop since it allows for more airflow, as soon as it was removed the tire inflated fine.
Once the bead pops on you deflate, re-insert the valve insert and inflate normally.
i do have that valve tool, and i've tried inflating both ways. the gas station air pump had no more success than my home device, but then of course i don't own ratchet straps.
The only option I have at this point is to try to bum some air compressor time off one of the installers that works for me. they might have a ratchet strap too. I don't know yet.
(04-25-2019, 08:59 PM)Houtman_imp Wrote: If you work on your bikes a lot you NEED an air compressor , they will last you a life time if you buy a good one . Even if it means spending less money on up graded parts. Even for house hold jobs an air compressor is very handy : drying , cleaning , staples etc etc.
haha houtman i'm quickly learning what my instincts have always been screaming at me: working on bikes is not for me. Every single time i try something new it ends up like this. nothing ever works like it's supposed to work. it always ends up costing me money. the sole exception to that is when somebody is actively sitting down and showing me what to do step by step, and there's nobody going to teach me how to work on bikes like that.
Bike parts are expensive as heck, so the way I see it, if i make a decision to buy some, they have to go on correctly the first time, without fail, without worry, and without fumbling around trying to figure out what I did wrong. Whatever bike parts i get in the future, they're going to go right to a shop and go on in the hands of a professional, which is the way I always have conducted business up to this point.
Clearly something broke in my brain when i decided i was going to attempt to learn how to do this stuff. lesson learned.
+10
Another item to add to the negative side of the DIY ledger: [url=https://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Wheel-Balancer/dp/B0040HE8OS]wheel balancer
![[Image: 77b28360911c2a0a98b23dc324f8ad97.jpg]](https://cb1100forum.net/forum/uploads/imp/201904/77b28360911c2a0a98b23dc324f8ad97.jpg)
I'm OK changing dirt bike tires and inner tubes. For street bikes, I'm more concerned about damaging the rims and the tire bead. My local Indian dealer will mount and balance for ~$30 per wheel if you drop off the wheels and new tires.
RE: trying to put a tire on for the first time. won't inflate? - misterprofessionality - 04-26-2019
(04-26-2019, 02:08 AM)Rocky_imp Wrote: Struggling with a tubeless tire is not my idea of fun so I pull the wheel and take it to my friendly dealer.
If I buy the tire there they mount and balance it for a nominal fee and I'm out the door.
there we have an even bigger rub, Rocky. "if i buy the tire there." what you'll find at most shops and dealers is that the price of tires is outrageously overinflated. I purchased my most recent PR3 for 128 dollars. my local dealer wanted over $250 for it. sure, they'll mount and balance for a nominal fee....but that $120 difference in tire price is not at all nominal.
(04-26-2019, 02:10 AM)Stichill_imp Wrote:(04-25-2019, 09:08 PM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote:(04-25-2019, 01:15 PM)chync_imp Wrote: You should also lubricate the inside of the rim so the tire won’t stick making it harder to bead. You need to use something that won’t corrode the metal rim. Something that evaporates. And removing the valve stem is a must to get the tire bead to seat. When I do a good job of wetting the rim I don’t need a strap using an air compressor at home. But the tire strap works well.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
i used loads of lubricant, believe me. wasted an entire jar of the stuff. its supposed to be specifically for tire mounting. it still took me almost 4 hours to get it into place. probably the most backbreaking, insane thing i've ever physically done. i will NEVER attempt it again.
(04-25-2019, 02:02 PM)Stichill_imp Wrote: Lol, my two Millennial kids are also unbelievably cheap.
If you don't want to spend money on even a low-end compressor, you could get an air tank and fill it someplace with free compressed air. Maybe your little compressor could even pump it up and then you could use it to seat the tire bead.
+1 on Razor's tip to remove the Schrader valve (you'll need a special but - thankfully - cheap tool) and then just blast a high volume of air into the tire quickly to seat the bead.
BTW, check Facebook Marketplace for used compressors and air tanks. The prices are often ridiculously cheap.
lol. being cheap is a matter of survival for my generation. if i wasn't cheap i wouldn't have everything I have. thankfully I'm one year away from owning a home outright, i own my vehicles, i get vacations and work one professional job, and I have all of that because i'm cheap as all heck. i cut corners at every opportunity, lie, cheat, steal, and beg. i will never, ever, ever let one thin penny escape from my pocket if there was any other way to get around it, and it's because of that strength that i've been able to be successful where 75% of my generation has failed.
being cheap is actually what gave me the idea to try to mount this tire. i thought "the shop wants like $40 bucks to mount the tire...the guide says all i need are tire irons, rim shields, lubricants, and an inflator. i've already got the inflator, so that's an easy choice. i can spend $40 on tools right now and never spend $40 to mount a tire again."
yea...what the guides didn't tell me is what you guys are telling me now, that i absolutely have a 3-digit price-range air compressor, that i need to spend another 20-30 bucks on ratchet straps, and what i found out on my own that the rim shields will be totally demolished after the first use. right now i'm trying to make sure that my ignorance doesn't cost me any money. i'm going to tell some lies and return the tire iron tools after this is all over, and never attempt this crap again. clearly it's cheaper just to let the shop do it if you don't already have an air compressor.
(04-25-2019, 04:25 PM)jtopiso_imp Wrote:(04-25-2019, 11:26 AM)Houtman_imp Wrote: I used straps on tires for a wheel barrow and you need a lot of air FAST to set a tire on a rim , should not be that difficult.
You always have a "russian method" for anything, and it's always an effective (and dangerous) one.
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLtBojvDEyc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLtBojvDEyc
If somebody tries it, please make a video
that's awesome and gnarly, but needless to say I will not be attempting that. i spent enough money on my tire, i don't need to buy another one.
very cool to watch though. you're not the first person to suggest the fire method to me, but i hadn't actually seen it done before.
(04-25-2019, 06:40 PM)max_imp Wrote: MP, have you tried removing the valve insert and inflating, setting the bead that way like razor mentions
Worked for me last time at the local fuel stop since it allows for more airflow, as soon as it was removed the tire inflated fine.
Once the bead pops on you deflate, re-insert the valve insert and inflate normally.
i do have that valve tool, and i've tried inflating both ways. the gas station air pump had no more success than my home device, but then of course i don't own ratchet straps.
The only option I have at this point is to try to bum some air compressor time off one of the installers that works for me. they might have a ratchet strap too. I don't know yet.
(04-25-2019, 08:59 PM)Houtman_imp Wrote: If you work on your bikes a lot you NEED an air compressor , they will last you a life time if you buy a good one . Even if it means spending less money on up graded parts. Even for house hold jobs an air compressor is very handy : drying , cleaning , staples etc etc.
haha houtman i'm quickly learning what my instincts have always been screaming at me: working on bikes is not for me. Every single time i try something new it ends up like this. nothing ever works like it's supposed to work. it always ends up costing me money. the sole exception to that is when somebody is actively sitting down and showing me what to do step by step, and there's nobody going to teach me how to work on bikes like that.
Bike parts are expensive as heck, so the way I see it, if i make a decision to buy some, they have to go on correctly the first time, without fail, without worry, and without fumbling around trying to figure out what I did wrong. Whatever bike parts i get in the future, they're going to go right to a shop and go on in the hands of a professional, which is the way I always have conducted business up to this point.
Clearly something broke in my brain when i decided i was going to attempt to learn how to do this stuff. lesson learned.
+10
Another item to add to the negative side of the DIY ledger: [url=https://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Wheel-Balancer/dp/B0040HE8OS]wheel balancer
I'm OK changing dirt bike tires and inner tubes. For street bikes, I'm more concerned about damaging the rims and the tire bead. My local Indian dealer will mount and balance for ~$30 per wheel if you drop off the wheels and new tires.
oh man....if i recalculate on that it's going to be well over 15 years before it equals out. I was just planning to do the "balancing" part by hanging the wheel loose on the spindle on the bike and balancing it by moving around the weight that's already stuck to the bike from previous tire changes. This was the initial advice i read.