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+--- Thread: ABS vs Not (/showthread.php?tid=4021)
RE: ABS vs Not - darmahman_imp - 07-09-2013
After buying my CB1100 w/o ABS a couple of months ago, (no ABS in stock) I rationalized it out by saying if I felt the need for it after 1,000 miles I would sell the bike and get an ABS model.
I have 1000 miles on it and won't be getting an ABS model. Here is why:
The non ABS brakes have excellent feel to them. As good as any bike I have ever owned. In my 45+ years of riding motorcycles only once did I wish I had ABS.
That bike (an 07 T100) had wooden brakes and I locked up the front and went down. Embarrassing to say the least. My body recovered but not my pride. I have put over a hundred thousand miles on various BMW's with ABS and tho the system has worked good and I have never had a problem still it is added cost and complexity. The best ABS system is upstairs in our head. Being alert to idiots and the unawake and unaware populating our roads, riding within ones level of competence and practicing our braking skills.
That said, I do have more confidence riding my big 1200GS fast with ABS tho I have yet to ever use it.
RE: ABS vs Not - HikerToo_imp - 07-09-2013
I was to cheap, was looking to spend around 7 or 8K, so even the non-ABS was more than I wanted to spend.
If the prices were the same, I probably would have went for the ABS.
RE: ABS vs Not - ChipBeck_imp - 07-09-2013
(07-08-2013, 09:29 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Chip not entirely true, but close. my ST 1300 has the LBSII system by Honda and it sucks. Many ST and Goldwing owners have had issues with theirs and Honda issued a recall on the Goldwings. No such luck on the STs yet though. Because of this I specifically wanted the simpler non ABS unit CB.
The CB however appears to have the simpler LBS system which acts as you described.
A combined braking system (CBS), also called linked braking system (LBS), is a system for linking front and rear brakes on a motorcycle or scooter.[1] In this system, the rider's action of depressing one of the brake levers applies both front and rear brakes. The amount of each brake applied may be determined by a proportional control valve.
BMW Motorrad uses a system called Integral ABS, in which the front brake lever operates both the front and rear brakes, while the brake pedal operates only the rear brake.
In the inverse, Honda's system that features both combined brakes and Anti-lock brakes is dubbed Combined ABS. In this system, it is the rear brake pedal that operates both front and rear brake, where the front brake lever operates only the front calipers.
Honda made several variations of the LBS system with differing levels of complexity and integration. The CBR1100XX featured what Honda called LBS II, a system where both levers would activate both brakes through a system of secondary pistons and proportioning/delay valves. One front brake caliper was connected to a secondary master cylinder, and the caliper was allowed to rotate slightly to apply pressure to the piston in that secondary master cylinder. Braking force was translated into pressure that was sent to the rear brake cylinder. Only the two outer pistons in the front brake calipers were directly activated by the brake lever; the center piston received pressure from the rear pedal via the proprtioning valve
Are you sure? The info I posted came from Rider Magazine's test of a C-ABS CB1100 and the copy read.......
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"Our test bike had the optional Combined Braking System/Anti-Lock Brakes (C-ABS), which uses 3-piston calipers up front and accounts for 9 of the bike’s 542 pounds fully fueled, as well as $1,000 of the MSRP. The C-ABS actuates one piston in each front caliper when the rear brake pedal is pressed to insure you’re always getting some front braking. Having it and the anti-lock feature is reassuring, and it all works quite well, though I am curious if shedding the option would give the front brake the extra bite it could use."
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If anybody could catch a magazine mistake I would put my money on Ferret but I have read in two different publications that only the rear brake pedal activates both front and rear brakes on the CB1100 and that the front brake handlebar lever activates only the front brake. Would a shop manual have that info? Magazines are often wrong.
Chip
RE: ABS vs Not - dailyrider_imp - 07-09-2013
I also opted for the ABS. I commute to Ann Arbor every day rain or shine and love the fact that I am going to have that much more control in a bad situation. You can ride as safely as you can and still some sob is going to cut you off, swerve into you or you ride into end of the world rain like I did yesterday. I have 1100 miles on it now and have had the ABS kick in once.
RE: ABS vs Not - the Ferret - 07-09-2013
Chip I said the system works as you described on the CB 11, but meant to say that is not the only way a Honda linked system works. In other words not all of Hondas linked systems work the same way. Sorry for the confusion.
Heres an easy way to find out ..pop your bike up on the centerstand and start it. Put it in gear and let out the clutch to get the rear wheel spinning, then pull in the clutch and hit the front brake lever. If the rear wheel stops spinning the front lever helps or is linked to the rear.
Now turn the key off and stand to the right side of the bike and push down on the rear portion of the seat to raise the front wheel off the ground. Have someone give the front wheel a good spin and you depress the rear brake pedal. If the front wheel stops spinning you'll know your rear is linked to the front.
On our ST's which have the pivoting proportional valve ( which we call the Secondary Master Cylinder) bolted to the front left caliper, we test by popping the bike on the centerstand, having someone manually spin the rear wheel, and we manually push on the secondary master cylinder toward the fork leg, which will then hopefully stop the rear wheel. When we release the SMC the wheel must be able to be spun again. IF it doesnt we have a bad SMC. Our front brake lever therefore also activates our rear braking. Complicated system.
Yes magazines do frequently make typos. Many were reporting the CB had a single 31 mm throttle body, others, a single 32 mm throttle body.... when in fact we have 4 throttle bodies with 32 mm bores.
RE: ABS vs Not - meowguy_imp - 07-09-2013
Quote:The best ABS system is upstairs in our head. Being alert to idiots and the unawake and unaware populating our roads, riding within ones level of competence and practicing our braking skills.
There are road hazards that you encounter over which you have no control. Oil on the road just after a brief shower, sand on the street left over from winter, wet leaves, cross walk paint with water on top, and panic stopping are all factors that will cause the front or rear wheel to lock up. Your brain cannot possibly account for all of these conditions all of the time. Most of the time, maybe, there is always one that can get you. And if you think you can pulse the application of brakes as fast as ABS can, that is just not humanly possible.
ABS just gives us another tool to use to stay vertical. As a returning rider after 45 years absence, I felt I needed all the help I could get. I went down on my Yamaha on Murray Hill in Cleveland in 1968 because my front wheel locked up on an oil slick road. Not fun and to be avoided.
All bikes sold in the US will be required to have ABS in 2016. So like it or not it is coming.
Quote:Collision insurance claims for motorcycles with ABS are filed 20 percent less frequently
Quote:Institute researchers compared the fatal crash experience of antilock-equipped motorcycles against their nonantilock counterparts during 2003-08. The main finding is that motorcycles with antilocks versus without are 37 percent less likely to be in fatal crashes per 10,000 registered vehicle years.
These statements from the insurance institute just go on and on how ABS is saving the lives of riders. We would be foolish to ignore this.
Honestly my mind is made up on this particular issue.
RE: ABS vs Not - Deanohh_imp - 07-10-2013
There are other factors to the stats which we don't know, such as what type and quantity of bikes were even available with abs, age and experience of riders, road conditions and type, speed, cause of crash, etc.
nothing against abs per se, but many stats don't tell the whole story.
RE: ABS vs Not - the Ferret - 07-10-2013
It would be in everyones safety interest:
If they wore armored gear 100 percent of the time including gloves and boots
If they wore a one piece full face helmet 100 percent of the time
If that gear was Florescent yellow green aka Hi Viz
If they took rider and advanced rider safety courses on a regular basis
If they had ABS on their bikes
If their bikes had riding modes programmed into their electronics that would reduce horsepower if rain was detected or if they didn't ride in the rain at all
If they didn't exceed the speed limit
If they didn't ride at dusk or dawn..or at night when visibilty is an issue
If they didn't ride during rush hour
If they didn't drink anything and then ride
If they checked their tire pressure before every ride
If they had self canceling turn signals that actually worked
If they had headlight and tail light modulators
If all motorcycles came equipped with air bags
Or if they didn't ride at all....
because when riding a motorcycle you accept that there are certain inherent dangers. The fact is, any day that you leave your driveway ( regardless of the safety gear on you or the bike) there is a certain risk that you will not re-enter that driveway later. Some things we just have no control over. It's fate. I've been riding on the street for 46 years and I know when I swing a leg over the saddle of my bike, that could be it. I might not make it home. I accept that. I do try and limit my exposure to danger somewhat, but I'm not going to let that fear consume my life. I want to enjoy riding my motorcycle. That's why I am not on the side of the Safety Nazis as they are called. Preach all you want..some rides I am wearing my open face helmet, I am wearing a tshirt and blue jeans, no gloves, maybe gym shoes. I will ride a motorcycle that I control the throttle, the lights and the brakes. I am completely comfortable with that and thanks for your concern.
The late Larry Grodsky was a safety guru. He wrote the safety column for Rider magazine. He taught safety classes. I'm sure his skill level was very high. I'm sure he always wore the best protective gear. I'm sure he was riding within his personal limitations and within the speed limit set by the law. But they found his body and the body of the deer he hit on a Texas Highway. Sometimes you can do everything right but fate has other plans.
You are never going to convince someone to wear all their gear all the time, not to speed, not to ride at dangerous times of the day etc if they don't want to. It's like trying to convince someone not to smoke. We all know the inherent dangers in smoking, yet some continue to do so, most likely some of you, and you will never get someone to quit if they don't want to.
If riding a motorcycle with ABS makes you feel safer, that's excellent as long as you don't get overly reliant on the mechanical device. Even Your CB's owner manual warns it may take longer to stop on an ABS equipped vehicle than on one not so equipped. So ya takes your chances.
RE: ABS vs Not - meowguy_imp - 07-10-2013
Well said ferret.
RE: ABS vs Not - darmahman_imp - 07-10-2013
Ferret - Your the man. love it. Couldn't of said it better me-self...