(01-05-2017, 02:36 AM)Scoobynut_imp Wrote: A lot of good points, Stichill, which I wholeheartedly agree with.

(01-04-2017, 11:58 PM)johnf514_imp Wrote: I speed. I speed on roads I know, and I speed when following someone I trust on roads I don't (which amounts to less than a handful of riders). I speed on the highway to make my way through traffic, and I speed through corners under good conditions to enjoy motorcycling.

I do not speed on roads I do not know. I do not speed in sub-ideal conditions, and I do not speed when following riders I do not trust. I have sped in all of those conditions, and each time I have ended up learning a lesson, whether by kissing the dirt or have a pucker moment. Not worth the risk.

(01-04-2017, 01:49 AM)Scoobynut_imp Wrote: I read once that "Speed doesn't kill. Running into things does." Kind of a bumper sticker slogan I suppose, but I have used it as a rebuttal to the safety nannies before, more to pull their chain than anything else. Despite this I am generally law-abiding and, like Ferret, don't push too far beyond posted limits.

I think what is overlooked in the U.S. is that most drivers are borderline incompetent when it comes to most aspects of driving. I'm continually amazed when I point out to other drivers that they are disregarding traffic rules-- either by beeping the horn or lifting my hand (not my middle finger) to say, "What are you doing?" -- how often they actually get mad at ME when they are obviously in the wrong. I don't do this often, but when it's blatant, sometimes I can't resist. I honestly think the biggest problem is that most drivers (and some riders) simply don't take driving or vehicle control seriously. I have a libertarian bent when it comes to government intruding into our lives, but this is one case where I think the agencies that administer licensing rules and regulations fail the citizens. What I mean is that you need only demonstrate the barest competence to become licensed in this country. And law enforcement I believe is a little too focused on speed when they seem (at least where I live) pretty lax when it comes to the other rules. On any given day where I live I'd be surprised if even half the other drivers even use their turn signals, seriously.

So it's not just speeding that is a problem in my view, it is all aspects of driving that are problematic. If I thought speed enforcement was the solution to all of this I would be behind it more forcefully, but unfortunately I have strong doubts that mere speed enforcement is actually improving overall safety to any real extent. Catch all the speeders you like, but you will still have the same amount of incompetent drivers on the road ignorant of proper driving etiquette and skills. If you get a license when your driving skills are poor, they will likely remain poor for the rest of your driving life. Maybe more thorough testing, regular 'refreshers' on the rules of the road, that you must pass each time every, say, 2-3 years, and a way to test people's actual competence behind the wheel at initial licensing. I say throw them out on a wet skidpad and make them demonstrate they know how to recover from an opposite-lock skid, when to release the brakes in a skid and etc. I know some will say 'Oh, the government won't go to that kind of trouble to license people.' I say why not? If we're serious about improving driving habits it would help a great deal and it would create more competent, SAFER drivers, though I realize some people wouldn't be able to pass such tests. The dilemma is that we in effect are saying that poor drivers will remain the norm, not the exception. I think a lot of non-alcohol related crashes are the result of people simply not knowing what to do in an emergency situation -- and ultimately, preventing crashes should be the goal. And again, I think this single-minded focus on speeding only masks all the other potential problems out there.

This is all simply my opinion and you are free to disagree. I think the single most important thing we can all do as riders is acknowledge that the 'other guy' is our potential deadliest enemy when we are on the roads and ride accordingly. Riding (and driving) is a deadly serious business and we should approach it like that, even though our fellow citizens in most cases don't.

(01-04-2017, 03:16 AM)Django_imp Wrote: I think, just blame speed for every kind of accident, like I observe in Australia, is to easy thinking.

Here in Germany, in 2015 about 31% of all car traffic mileage was done at the Autobahn, but there happened only 6.4% of all traffic accidents, causing 8.3% of all traffic casualties in Germany.

Per 1 billion car traffic km we have 1.63 casualties in Germany. That is less than the USA with 3.43 casualties per 1 billion car km.

We have also speed limits, 50 km/h in town, 100 km/h out of town and many speed limits also at the Autobahn, when conditions do require lower speeds, mostly between 80 km/h and 130 km/h.

While it is also enforced in Germany, it is not such restrictive like in other European countries. Normally you are good, if you don't exceed more like 5 km/h. From 5 - 10 km/h to much it costs 15 Euro, 10 - 20 km/h to much cost 30 Euros. Over that it gets expensive and you may experience loss of driver licence.

Here is the last German statistic:
https://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/statistik_4_5_unfallgeschehen_strassenarten_42780.pdf

(01-04-2017, 06:18 AM)LongRanger_imp Wrote: Great discussion. Here in the western US (and I imagine in other parts of the country), highway departments are employing a very effective speed deterrent for motorcyclists: tar snakes (pavement filler). On more and more of our wonderfully sinuous roads, you'll find tar snakes at perpendicular or longitudinal intervals across the roadway, mainly on the curves. In the summer, as they heat up from the sun, tar snakes become very slippery and conspire against aggressive leaning, thus reducing one's speed accordingly. Most discouraging is finding the application of tar snakes on sections of fresh pavement, where there are no cracks.