(06-24-2021, 11:35 PM)pekingduck_imp Wrote: Hovmod, thanks for the descriptive ride reports, especially on the two H-D models. They do sound so far removed from our simple CB1100s, though that has an appeal too.

(06-24-2021, 11:58 PM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: Im not saying it's not fun. It's the price. Theres such a thing as a ceiling on value, and no motorcycle is worth that much. 30k for any motorcycle is just grotesque. Many will argue with me, but its a financial perspective more than anything. This is doubly true for an electric bike whose batteries will fail or need replacement within 5 to 10 years.

Couple that with the fact that the zero srf premium is better on range, better on speed, better on weight, better on brakes, better on charging, and way way better on price... you begin to see why I have no interest in a livewire. The value statement just isn't there. It's outperformed and outpaced in every single category.

(06-24-2021, 11:59 PM)Hovmod_imp Wrote:

(06-24-2021, 11:35 PM)pekingduck_imp Wrote: Hovmod, thanks for the descriptive ride reports, especially on the two H-D models. They do sound so far removed from our simple CB1100s, though that has an appeal too.

The CB1100 is so good.
Like I said, it just keeps getting better by comparing other bikes.
This is why I’m not trying any other bikes in the naked litre segment, even though those are often the bikes that appeal the most to me. I *have* that, and a Ducati Monster or a NineT Scrambler or a V7 Bobber or any variety of retro informed, strong, naked bike can’t bring anything that I’m missing on the Honda. So they have to be different from it. They have to bring something to the table that the CB doesn’t do. Like dirt roads or track days, or fairings and wind shielding. Or electric motors. Or just being Italian.

(06-24-2021, 11:58 PM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: Im not saying it's not fun. It's the price. Theres such a thing as a ceiling on value, and no motorcycle is worth that much. 30k for any motorcycle is just grotesque. Many will argue with me, but its a financial perspective more than anything. This is doubly true for an electric bike whose batteries will fail or need replacement within 5 to 10 years.

Couple that with the fact that the zero srf premium is better on range, better on speed, better on weight, better on brakes, better on charging, and way way better on price... you begin to see why I have no interest in a livewire. The value statement just isn't there. It's outperformed and outpaced in every single category.

I agree.
I also didn’t mean to put words in your mouth.
I haven’t found a dealer that will let me test a Zero either, and I’m not buying anything I havent tried.

(06-25-2021, 05:58 AM)Stichill_imp Wrote: I know you guys are all about the air cooling, but I wouldn't mind a liquid-cooled CB750 styled retro (not neo-retro) with a smaller, lighter engine weighing overall 100 lbs / 45 kg less than a CB1100.

(06-24-2021, 10:52 PM)Hovmod_imp Wrote: Here’s the second part of my post. Sorry about the mess.
I was equally surprised and impressed by the Pan America. Harley Davidson has managed to make a full blown, bona fide adventure bike without making a BMW GS copy, which apparently isn’t that easy. Ask Triumph or Ducati or KTM or Honda or Royal Enfield or …..
The Pan America is just a bit too tall for me with my short legs, but there’s a version which lowers itself 5cm at low speeds, sounds like the one I need. Once on it, EVERYTHING seemed right. The engine is new, and it is magnificent! There’s low end torque, snd then it just smoothly delivers throughout its range, with an extra little almost Japanese extra hit of juice as you approach the red line at 9000 or so. The noise from it is completely awesome, a low, insisting growl that inspires, yet restrained enough to not piss off your neighbours. It sounded almost more like a Ducati, you know, a big bore twin which has actually been properly assembled.
The seating position was perfect for me, with the only little nitpick that my left knee touched what I’m assuming is a coil or something spark plug related, and I’d be worried about disrupting that when the riding requires leg input. Everything else, perhaps minus the headlight and fairing design, blew me away. I took the exact same route as I did on the Livewire, and several times I thought that I don’t ever want to get off. I thought «this is the best motorcycle I have ever ridden!» a couple times. I waved at a group of GSes at a gas station, causing quite a commotion, as they pointed and waved and there’s obviously a buzz about this bike now. I found the Pan America to be nimble and predictable in turns and corners, I felt a confidence riding it that I certainly never got from any Harley before, and the wind shield was perfect. It took the wind off my chest but left my head above the turbulence. I could ride this for twelve hours a day for weeks. It is so good. It has serious power as well as serious riding aids, I wouldn’t hesitate to ride this from Kirkenes to Cape Town.
Minuses: It’s a HD, for better and worse. It’s made in the US, for better and worse. It’s huge, and even though that’s some times good, it’s also some times not so good. That connector I hit with my knee. It’s expensive (even though it’s less that the top models of BMW and Ducati), and it’s impossible to get one before October, so if I decide to get one it won’t be on the road in 2021.
But people: I really fell hard for the PA. One of the best motorcycles I have ever ridden, and the only one of the ones I’ve tried so far to stay on my short list.

The main thing with the CB that may cause me to switch is that it’s naked. I chose that consciously, not only because it just looks better, but because it makes me ride slower. Actually, the right way to say that is that it starts being fun at lower speeds, which is great. However, the previous weekend I ended the day by riding for a few hours at speed on a motorway with high winds, and it wore me out. I was so exhausted, I dropped the RS as I was parking it. No juice left to hold back. So as I’m getting older and develop new aches and pains, I might have to make some adjustments. I need a wind shield. A good one.

The next bikes I’m looking at, once my back is good enough, are two bikes in the Sport Touring segment. I don’t do that much riding on dirt roads (I did a lot more of it when I had the R65GS, so a PA isn’t wasted), so perhaps what I need is a bike made for faraway twisties? I’m talking about the BMW S1000XR and the STUNNING MV Agusta Turismo Veloce 800 Lusso SCS. I’m having trouble finding a dealer who will let me try the MV Agusta, but it certainly looks like they’ve managed to take a sports bike and make a thing of beauty that you want to take for loooong rides. I’m trying the BMW mostly to see if that type of bike is what I want. The CB1100RS has a bit of racing in its DNA, but not as much as the XR and the MV, of course. Maybe I don’t want 165 hp if it makes the seat vibrate. Maybe I don’t want Italian design if it means I start obsessing over dirt. I don’t know. What I DO know is that after each and every test ride I’ve described above, riding the CB1100 home was never disappointing. I would almost say that it is a surprisingly good motorcycle, and that I know I will miss it if I trade it, so I’d better get it right if I decide to go through with it.

Stay tuned.
Tormod