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+--- Thread: ABS vs Not (/showthread.php?tid=4021)
RE: ABS vs Not - ChipBeck_imp - 07-08-2013
My dealer had both versions and the cost of ABS was not a factor. Still, I decided to purchase a non-ABS CB11. I can't tell you why other than I've never owned an ABS bike. I'm not anti ABS however and soon I'll be buying a new CBR250R for my son and I will insist on ABS for his bike. Go figure???
Chip
RE: ABS vs Not - Guth_imp - 07-08-2013
LiveToRide, I was in the exact same boat as you and ended up with the non-ABS machine. After I bought my bike, I got an earful from the service guys and it turns out that not everyone at Honda is a fan of the Combined ABS system. The gist of discussion primarily had to do with how Honda decided to implement the "combined braking" portion of the system on each model of bike. For example, the Combined ABS on the big CBRs (I'm not sure about the CBR250) works much differently than the Combined ABS on say the touring bikes. Apparently the combined braking system is far less invasive in response to the riders inputs on the CBRs as compared to the touring bikes. The implementation of the ABS on the CBRs sounds pretty neat to me, but not so much on the touring bikes.
So, the question in my mind is just how did Honda implement the combined braking system on the CB1100? A better overall question might be: has anyone here engaged the ABS on their CB1100 in situations where they weren't simply testing it out on their own and if so, how did it engage and perform? What were the conditions and how did the ABS make a difference?
I still think that overall ABS makes a lot of sense. It is the way of the future. I'm just not sure that I will ever fully trust the technology (I've experienced ABS not working in a car, result = no brakes). I wish that Honda had provided an override switch that would allow the rider to turn the ABS system on or off as they choose as other manufacturers have. I'm guessing that at some point down the road, all new bikes will have ABS. If anyone can ultimately get it right, my money would be on Honda.
RE: ABS vs Not - LiveToRide_imp - 07-08-2013
I'm surprised a failure would leave you without brakes. I would think just the ABS part would stop working but the brakes would still work.
RE: ABS vs Not - Guth_imp - 07-08-2013
Keep in mind that this was over a decade ago and this was in a car. I was driving in a downpour and was turning on to a cloverleaf onramp heading downhill. While the brakes did not work (there was absolutely nothing there), the Quattro all wheel drive did (the car was an Audi A4) and the car plowed through the corner, but I was not at all happy. Fortunately there were no other cars directly in front of me. Apparently the conditions were such the they negated the brake pedal all together. The braking did return after I entered the highway.
I ended up doing quite a bit of research and found out that others had also experienced similar situations and that Audi had issued some special shields of some sort (unannounced of course). When I went to my dealer, they had no idea what I was talking about, but when I provided them with the part numbers I found, they pulled up in their system, so they ordered them for me. They installed the shields, and I've had no problems since then. But the whole thing did leave me a bit skeptical advances in technology when it comes to drive and braking systems.
Even after that, I was willing to take a chance on Honda's ABS when it came to the CB1100. As I pointed out in my post, any complaints that I've heard when it comes to Honda's braking systems have had to to with the combined portion of the braking system and not the ABS itself. In fact, Honda even uses ABS on their endurance racing bikes, so they are putting their money where their mouth is when it comes to ABS.
RE: ABS vs Not - OldF7Guy_imp - 07-08-2013
I was under the impression the ABS on the CB11 was the linked systems like on the bigger bikes. Ferret I believe said there have been issues with the ST1300s and it was pretty much a complicated system. Or at least that is how I took it. I like the idea of it but always leary of making something more complicated.
(07-08-2013, 01:31 PM)ChipBeck_imp Wrote: My dealer had both versions and the cost of ABS was not a factor. Still, I decided to purchase a non-ABS CB11. I can't tell you why other than I've never owned an ABS bike. I'm not anti ABS however and soon I'll be buying a new CBR250R for my son and I will insist on ABS for his bike. Go figure???
Chip
I can certainly understand that. There is just something funny about putting your faith in ABS on 2 wheels when you have never ridden one. I have not either and it just makes me a little leary when at the same time I have a lot of confidence in Honda.
RE: ABS vs Not - ChipBeck_imp - 07-08-2013
(07-08-2013, 05:12 PM)OldF7Guy_imp Wrote: I was under the impression the ABS on the CB11 was the linked systems like on the bigger bikes. Ferret I believe said there have been issues with the ST1300s and it was pretty much a complicated system. Or at least that is how I took it. I like the idea of it but always leary of making something more complicated.
(07-08-2013, 01:31 PM)ChipBeck_imp Wrote: My dealer had both versions and the cost of ABS was not a factor. Still, I decided to purchase a non-ABS CB11. I can't tell you why other than I've never owned an ABS bike. I'm not anti ABS however and soon I'll be buying a new CBR250R for my son and I will insist on ABS for his bike. Go figure???
Chip
I can certainly understand that. There is just something funny about putting your faith in ABS on 2 wheels when you have never ridden one. I have not either and it just makes me a little leary when at the same time I have a lot of confidence in Honda.
Yes, the ABS offered on the CB11 is a linked system. If you apply the rear brake the system also applies some front brake as well. It isn't possible to apply just rear braking which is probably a good thing. The front brake does not apply rear braking however. One of the magazine tests said that some brake feel is lost with the ABS but that it worked as advertised. It would be interesting to ride both versions back to back to see if you could feel the difference. What I do know is that I love the feel, light lever pressure, and massive stopping power of my non-ABS brakes and I acknowledge I've never ridden an ABS CB to compare it to. Cheers.
Chip
RE: ABS vs Not - the Ferret - 07-08-2013
Chip not entirely true, but close. my ST 1300 has the LBSII system by Honda and it sucks. Many ST and Goldwing owners have had issues with theirs and Honda issued a recall on the Goldwings. No such luck on the STs yet though. Because of this I specifically wanted the simpler non ABS unit CB.
The CB however appears to have the simpler LBS system which acts as you described.
A combined braking system (CBS), also called linked braking system (LBS), is a system for linking front and rear brakes on a motorcycle or scooter.[1] In this system, the rider's action of depressing one of the brake levers applies both front and rear brakes. The amount of each brake applied may be determined by a proportional control valve.
BMW Motorrad uses a system called Integral ABS, in which the front brake lever operates both the front and rear brakes, while the brake pedal operates only the rear brake.
In the inverse, Honda's system that features both combined brakes and Anti-lock brakes is dubbed Combined ABS. In this system, it is the rear brake pedal that operates both front and rear brake, where the front brake lever operates only the front calipers.
Honda made several variations of the LBS system with differing levels of complexity and integration. The CBR1100XX featured what Honda called LBS II, a system where both levers would activate both brakes through a system of secondary pistons and proportioning/delay valves. One front brake caliper was connected to a secondary master cylinder, and the caliper was allowed to rotate slightly to apply pressure to the piston in that secondary master cylinder. Braking force was translated into pressure that was sent to the rear brake cylinder. Only the two outer pistons in the front brake calipers were directly activated by the brake lever; the center piston received pressure from the rear pedal via the proprtioning valve
RE: ABS vs Not - Buffalohead_imp - 07-09-2013
(07-08-2013, 01:56 PM)LiveToRide_imp Wrote: I'm surprised a failure would leave you without brakes. I would think just the ABS part would stop working but the brakes would still work.
*************************************************
When my friend's ABS failed, first it locked up (and almost killed him), then after that he had no brakes at all. Then, after $2400 (part only) he had the same unreliable system back again. But, that was a BMW, not a Honda.
Hey LiveToRide, I'll bet you never thought you'd get something like this started!
So, have you arrived at a decision yet?
RE: ABS vs Not - terrydlargo_imp - 07-09-2013
Most of think we are better riders than we really are. ABS has worked in my favor twice, and never let me down. So its ABS for me always.
RE: ABS vs Not - meowguy_imp - 07-09-2013
(07-09-2013, 04:39 AM)terrydlargo_imp Wrote: Most of think we are better riders than we really are. ABS has worked in my favor twice, and never let me down. So its ABS for me always.
Me too. Would not buy a bike without it, now that you have quite a choice of ABS bikes to choose from. Triumph, BMW, Suzuki, Honda, HD. The CB11 was the only one I could find with ABS that was a standard format ride. That's why I jumped for it.