(10-30-2015, 12:00 AM)MrGood_imp Wrote: I understand and you have a valid point, I'm just looking for insight and suggestions based on folks' experience. I think the Kawi ZRX11/1200s are a good platform but they're carb'd, and I'd rather not go there. Those bikes themselves are a throwback replica to the Eddie Lawson bike of the 70s.

(10-30-2015, 12:10 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Capo, first off I agree with you, but I was comparing things that can be measured, not the immeasurable, which cannot be compared.

How do you measure soul? I've never had a bike that I consider had "soul". I've had Hondas, Yamahas, Suzukis, Kawasakis, Triumph, BSA, Harley Davidsons and an Aermachhi. 31 street bikes all together I think. And what I didn't own I sold/ rode in my 17 years in the industry..including Moto Guzzi's, Nortons and Ducatis, and I have ridden quite a few BMWs and a KTM or two as well.

Same goes with character. i've never had a bike I considered had "character". They have either been great bikes, good bikes, not so good bikes, and crummy bikes. Generally speaking the ones I owned that most people considered having soul and character ( Harleys, BSA, Aermacchi etc) were " for me", the crummy bikes. A bike that has electrical problems or has a persistant oil leak, or vibrates parts until they break says " character" to some, but to me says " crummy". My son's Ducati for example. A lot of people would say the Ducati has soul or character compared to my Honda. Since his bike has been in the shop for all of those problems plus a locked up transmission all in under 8,000 miles, whereas in 24,000 miles my CBs have required nothing but oil changes and tires. I would consider his Ducati crummy, and my CBs great. I do not consider working on bikes between rides to keep them running character. Or one that leaves puddles of oil on my garage floor as having soul. Some guys like to fiddle, I like to ride. BTW I once had a guy tell me that a bike had character if you took it out for a ride and you weren't sure it would bring you back home.

Hard to say how someone will connect with a motorcycle on a " feelings", appearance, or comfort level so when someone asks for a comparison I can't say that this motorcycle is good looking, or comfortable, or that motorcycle has soul or character, I can only give measurable responses. HP, torque, weight, gas capacity, gears in transmission, drive system, price new or used.. The spec sheets as you would call them.

I too would absolutely recommend trying the bikes out if they can before buying.

(10-30-2015, 12:10 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Capo, first off I agree with you, but I was comparing things that can be measured, not the immeasurable, which cannot be compared.

How do you measure soul? I've never had a bike that I consider had "soul". I've had Hondas, Yamahas, Suzukis, Kawasakis, Triumph, BSA, Harley Davidsons and an Aermachhi. 31 street bikes all together I think. And what I didn't own I sold/ rode in my 17 years in the industry..including Moto Guzzi's, Nortons and Ducatis, and I have ridden quite a few BMWs and a KTM or two as well.

Same goes with character. i've never had a bike I considered had "character". They have either been great bikes, good bikes, not so good bikes, and crummy bikes. Generally speaking the ones I owned that most people considered having soul and character ( Harleys, BSA, Aermacchi etc) were " for me", the crummy bikes. A bike that has electrical problems or has a persistant oil leak, or vibrates parts until they break says " character" to some, but to me says " crummy". My son's Ducati for example. A lot of people would say the Ducati has soul or character compared to my Honda. Since his bike has been in the shop for all of those problems plus a locked up transmission all in under 8,000 miles, whereas in 24,000 miles my CBs have required nothing but oil changes and tires. I would consider his Ducati crummy, and my CBs great. I do not consider working on bikes between rides to keep them running character. Or one that leaves puddles of oil on my garage floor as having soul. Some guys like to fiddle, I like to ride. BTW I once had a guy tell me that a bike had character if you took it out for a ride and you weren't sure it would bring you back home.

Hard to say how someone will connect with a motorcycle on a " feelings", appearance, or comfort level so when someone asks for a comparison I can't say that this motorcycle is good looking, or comfortable, or that motorcycle has soul or character, I can only give measurable responses. HP, torque, weight, gas capacity, gears in transmission, drive system, price new or used.. The spec sheets as you would call them.

I too would absolutely recommend trying the bikes out if they can before buying.