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+--- Thread: Character (/showthread.php?tid=1971)
RE: Character - the Ferret - 04-19-2017
Most riders of those other brands would tell you unequivocally, that NO Honda has character, (well maybe a GB 500), that they are boring (as Wisedrum said), and more closely resemble appliances than proper motorbikes. If I have heard/read that once, I have heard it 10,000 times.
RE: Character - CA200_imp - 04-20-2017
When I had a motorcycle acc. store we saw characters every day. They walked through the front door!
RE: Character - pdedse - 04-20-2017
(04-19-2017, 11:21 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Most riders of those other brands would tell you unequivocally, that NO Honda has character, (well maybe a GB 500), that they are boring (as Wisedrum said), and more closely resemble appliances than proper motorbikes. If I have heard/read that once, I have heard it 10,000 times.
I wonder if the notion that "NO Honda has character" simply stems from the perception that Honda engines generally produce a quiet, refined "hum" instead of an obvious "rumble". Stereotypes of motorcycles are that they are loud and rumble, have a "throaty voice" whatever you want to call it. And the limited Hondas I've owned and ridden are less so. If you were to take away all engine noise from all motorcycles, what would pass for "character" Looks? Performance? Reliability? I would say after the way they sound, character points would be given to these traits in that order: looks, performance and reliability. So what Honda perhaps is best known for, reliability (?), might be on the lower end of "what gives a bike character".
Much ado about nothing, really. Character, lack of it, other peoples' perceptions, etc. do not detract from my enjoyment of the CB1100. I know why I like it.
RE: Character - flynrider - 04-20-2017
(04-19-2017, 11:21 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Most riders of those other brands would tell you unequivocally, that NO Honda has character, (well maybe a GB 500), that they are boring (as Wisedrum said), and more closely resemble appliances than proper motorbikes. If I have heard/read that once, I have heard it 10,000 times.
That's pretty much what I hear from my non-Honda riding buddies. The one thing they do seem to agree on is that none of the bikes with "character" are as reliable as a character-lacking Honda.
I value being able to hop on a bike and riding across town or across the country with the knowledge that I'll likely make it there without any unplanned roadside stops. That's my kind of character
RE: Character - DaSwami_imp - 04-21-2017
The Moto Guzzi does not have a rear drum, it has a disc brake and a differential, maybe that is what he referred to?
My V7 (2013) and V7II's (2016) are so far well sorted right out of the gate. No issues whatsoever, except just 100% pure fun to ride. They don't "twist" to the side when you blip the throttle, they just lean a little, a little movement, it's a hoot!
Only issue I have with them is the aforementioned poor dealer network, it's a downer.
One more time, let's review the checklist on the V7...
Shaft drive
Lightweight (~~420 pounds)
Screw and locknut valve adjustments and cylinders hanging right there like a pair of jugs, easy to work on.
Huge 5.5+ gallon tank = best range of any bike I've owned
Fuel injected
Stone model has cast wheels, others have nice spoke wheels
6-speed transmission on the newer models
Subjective, but great styling!
A pleasant, torquey, snappy engine that likes to rev
Subjective, but lovely throaty factory exhaust
ABS and traction control for under $9K
For me, amazing handling (factory Pirelli tires stick like glue)
LOADS of character lol
The V7 moves my nearly 300 pound carcass like it is not even there!
I like the very first post after the initial post, it's about sound, going against the grain, being unique, standing out from the cookie cutter crowd. Maybe I'll concur with ferret, perhaps needing a "little" TLC haha
RE: Character - Henrik_imp - 04-21-2017
To me, one of the things that defines character in a bike is when it takes a bit of effort to get to know and master it. But once you have, the reward is all the bigger. It is not that these are flaws, although often bikes with "character" do indeed come with certain flaws.
To me, the Honda VFR 800 I had in 1999 certainly had character, and it was flawless. It did take a bit of effort to fully learn how to master it, but then it was amazing. However, it was easier at the first approach than say the Ducati ST2 I got later. That bike certainly had loads of character, and for a person who was not used to it it would be a bit challenging at first. However, in spite of the reputation Ducatis may have, I never had any problems with it.
After that, my Moto Morini Corsaro was bursting with character. It was a beast, and certainly not for a beginner or the faint of heart. But when you got to know it, and understand how to ride it, the reward was amazing. Unfortunately it came with loads of reliability issues.
As for the CB1100, it may lack a bit of character in that it is very easy to ride, and smooth. It never really surprises you, or catches you unaware, but it just always delivers flawlessly. It doesn't get my heart pumping while riding like the Corsaro did, but it brings me another joy. It allows me to more enjoy the ride, and not have to be as focused on the actual riding.
RE: Character - rboe - 04-22-2017
My take (and this is very subjective) the bikes that get labeled as having character are the ones that a good low frequency vibration (Twin four cycles are good, just about any two stroke is not), followed by a deep low frequency rumble from the exhaust.
Any high frequency vibrations are bad. Little to no frequencies are bad (I think people are looking for some sort of positive feedback from engine room after twisting the throttle).
E.g. a big ol' steam engine has a lot of character compared to a diesel electric. One is great on Sunday, the other is better Monday through Friday......
I think all bikes have character; it's just that some people respond better to some of the character than others. Some days I like the Griso, most days I prefer the CB. Or oddly enough, the XR650L (light and nimble - I like nimble - and torque, I love torque!).
RE: Character - Wisedrum - 04-22-2017
(04-22-2017, 01:20 AM)Rboe_imp Wrote: My take (and this is very subjective) the bikes that get labeled as having character are the ones that a good low frequency vibration (Twin four cycles are good, just about any two stroke is not), followed by a deep low frequency rumble from the exhaust.
Any high frequency vibrations are bad. Little to no frequencies are bad (I think people are looking for some sort of positive feedback from engine room after twisting the throttle).
E.g. a big ol' steam engine has a lot of character compared to a diesel electric. One is great on Sunday, the other is better Monday through Friday......
I think all bikes have character; it's just that some people respond better to some of the character than others. Some days I like the Griso, most days I prefer the CB. Or oddly enough, the XR650L (light and nimble - I like nimble - and torque, I love torque!).
Strangely enough, Honda's engineers announced having programmed right that kind of feedback from the CB's engine. Or should I write, they tried to? Suprise, does anyone has found these kind of vibrations?
Yes, with imagination there are some little by little above 3.000 revs.
But all in all the CB is a very smooth running machine. I prefer this kind of feedback or let's say character.
Wisedrum
RE: Character - the Ferret - 04-22-2017
I've had 3 big inch Harley Twins (49,56,and 57). They had thumping vibes. A lot of them. One time my brother and I were headed to Gatlinburg. He was on his Moto Guzzi 850 Eldorado and I was on my 57 Panhead. We were headed down I-75 in northern Kentucky. I was having trouble keeping my feet on the pegs and my helmet was vibrating around on my head. My glasses were bouncing, my vision was blurry. I look over and my brother is just sitting there on his Guzzi behind his Wixom fairing without a worry in the world. I motioned him to pull over. He asked what was wrong and I told him I couldn't take it anymore I was going back home. When I got home I sold the panhead and bought a characterless 2 stroke Yamaha RD 350. Great bike. I also had a Sportster (2 actually..59 and 94) that had the thumping V twin vibes. Below 55 mph they just shook. Above 55 MPH it shook so bad it made your hands and feet itch and about 60 mph was all I could stand for any length of time. Then I've had (3.. a 73, a 79 and an 81) 650 Yamaha parallel twins. They had thumping twin vibes too... just across and not fore and aft. At idle they would walk across the garage floor on their own. At speed they shook. At a lot of speed they broke delicate things like bulbs, and license plates lol. Also had a 69 BSA 750 Rocket 3 triple. It ran well, and as I remember was pretty smooth compared to the others. It's character claim to fame was the persistent oil leak I couldn't fix, that permanently marked every pair of levis I owned at the time. Sold it too. All 6 made a lot more noise than my CB. Guess I've had my share of "character", but just found it mostly annoying and aggravating lol.
RE: Character - Nortoon_imp - 04-22-2017
The 750cc BSA Rocket triples were a lot less lumpy than the 650cc BSA Lightning twins.
The offset smaller pistons in the Rocket 3 allowed the crankshaft to turn far more smoothly. The larger pistons in the Lightning both rose and fell at the same time. They had a huge flywheel in order to provide enough inertia to keep the pistons in motion.
Slinging all that weight around was the reason BSAs twins were called Birmingham Vibrators. However that lumpy engine, lots of torque, and that beautiful exhaust sound were the things that endeared me to my Lightnings.
My first Lightning bathed the greasy side down with oil because of a built in chain oiler. When I rebuilt the motor, I found a small pocket inside the primary chaincase cover. It gathered oil when the triple link primary chain was in motion. The oil would pass down through a channel to a short rubber hose over the drive chain. I dropped some solder in the hole in the bottom of the pocket. No more oil leak. Drive chains were lubed by boiling them in the motor oil removed during an oil change, which were far more frequent then.