(05-17-2022, 08:30 PM)whizzle_dizzler_imp Wrote: I'm thinking that I also have an ECU issue.

Has anyone here figured out the "regular" idle in gear, and while letting out the clutch, the revs rise in a sort of linear fashion with the release? I hadn't looked into that aspect of the problem yet, as I was hoping I wouldn't need to, and the only thing that I'm aware of that would communicate with the bike would be the clutch switch, but that should only be on/off.

As much as I dislike talking to the dealer, I suppose I should contact a few of them to look into this software patch.

(05-17-2022, 12:23 PM)max_imp Wrote: As you may have read some lucky members have permanently fixed their issue with a software update, not possible in the us, e.p.a. is a scary thing so the dealers are not prepared to risk their business i believe.

Every single cb with this issue ( mostly the 2014 models ) started good as gold but something changed over time and we never saw any wear or dirt in the valve body, so what gives?

And i don't know of any member who did not have success with a new iacv, to me it is the lack of control from the ecu,
( hence the software " update " ) i think the older iacv's permanent magnets have degraded to the point where they no longer control the iacv correctly.

A lot of times this has happened after the engine has been very warm, permanent magnets lose magnetism if the temperature rises, the iacv is in a hot place and that is why i have come to this conclusion.

You may be in a unique position to evaluate the " magnetic torque " difference between an old and a new one firsthand.........

Haya Doc.

(05-17-2022, 05:42 PM)Enzofour_imp Wrote: When I replaced the IACV, a few days later the dealer installed a software patch that he had received from Honda in 2014 to fix the low or high rpm ramdom problems.
I haven't had any issues to date, but I can't guarantee if the solution was the IACV replacement or the patch or both.

(05-17-2022, 09:36 PM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote:

(05-17-2022, 08:30 PM)whizzle_dizzler_imp Wrote: I'm thinking that I also have an ECU issue.

Has anyone here figured out the "regular" idle in gear, and while letting out the clutch, the revs rise in a sort of linear fashion with the release? I hadn't looked into that aspect of the problem yet, as I was hoping I wouldn't need to, and the only thing that I'm aware of that would communicate with the bike would be the clutch switch, but that should only be on/off.

As much as I dislike talking to the dealer, I suppose I should contact a few of them to look into this software patch.

I only saw that behaviour - and only a couple of times - when riding with a "cold" engine at around -20C in winter. It took about five to ten minutes to go away and after the engine could reach operating temperature. This was the exception, not typical.

(05-18-2022, 02:33 AM)max_imp Wrote: The clutch switch is connected to the ecu and has a sort of " takeoff assist " function when the clutch is released, it is also hard-wired to the starting curcuit to bypass the neutral switch so the engine can be started with the clutch pulled in and side stand up.



To date i have not seen an ecu which has changed behavior spontaneously like you suggest, sometimes an in-or output channel may be damaged by a fault induced by an operator but in general they are well padded from damage by design in their normal environment.
In the past i have tried to locate the name ( number ) of the patch but without success so i can't help you there.

The fact that the cb1000rr iacv did not have the desired result supports the heat related degradation theory.
The iacv is constantly at work in the engine supported by the software behavior, first when the engine initialises at key-on when the meters sweep the iacv is opened up fully to the end-of -travel ( which is why there is a spring on the piston ) so the ecu now knows it's position and then closes a number of steps depending on the engine temperature to settle on 1500 rpm and gradually slow down to 1050 rpm with a warmed up engine, and also when the throttle is used, when the clutch is pulled in etc, so it works constantly to adjust idle speed.

If you switch the ignition key on and immediately start the engine during the initialization cycle it revs faster ( because it is close to the open-end-of-travel ) and quickly settles at the desired revs at the time.

it receives a small number of pulses from the ecu, i think the length ( duty cycle ) of these pulses is smaller in the 2014 models but initially just big enough to operate the iacv correctly but after the iacv has been heated up and loses magnetism they are no longer able to control the iacv as normal.
The software changes ( increases ) the available pulse width to match the other model's cb1100 and so restores control of the iacv i think.

Having said all that it would be a really nice situation if the patch was available because it would save a lot of work, so best of luck with the endeavor.

(05-18-2022, 05:35 AM)whizzle_dizzler_imp Wrote:

(05-17-2022, 05:42 PM)Enzofour_imp Wrote: When I replaced the IACV, a few days later the dealer installed a software patch that he had received from Honda in 2014 to fix the low or high rpm ramdom problems.
I haven't had any issues to date, but I can't guarantee if the solution was the IACV replacement or the patch or both.

Do you think you could ask your dealer if they had a number on that software patch? I just got off the phone with my local service department. They looked up the VIN, but didn't come up with any service bulletins regarding the idle issues. I'm planning on heading to the dealer this Saturday so they can hook it up to their diag tools, so hopefully I can get some more information to get this (and everyone's bike) sorted.

(05-17-2022, 09:36 PM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote:

(05-17-2022, 08:30 PM)whizzle_dizzler_imp Wrote: I'm thinking that I also have an ECU issue.

Has anyone here figured out the "regular" idle in gear, and while letting out the clutch, the revs rise in a sort of linear fashion with the release? I hadn't looked into that aspect of the problem yet, as I was hoping I wouldn't need to, and the only thing that I'm aware of that would communicate with the bike would be the clutch switch, but that should only be on/off.

As much as I dislike talking to the dealer, I suppose I should contact a few of them to look into this software patch.

I only saw that behaviour - and only a couple of times - when riding with a "cold" engine at around -20C in winter. It took about five to ten minutes to go away and after the engine could reach operating temperature. This was the exception, not typical.

Since I ride all year round, I've had experienced almost everyday of commuting in a year from 14*F - 100*F, and my bike's issue is very consistent. It may ride and idle fine for a few minutes, but no matter what day, the problem will still show its ugly face. The only thing symptom that hasn't yet appeared this season, is the idle rpm hasn't started dropping while sitting in traffic like it's about to die.

(05-18-2022, 02:33 AM)max_imp Wrote: The clutch switch is connected to the ecu and has a sort of " takeoff assist " function when the clutch is released, it is also hard-wired to the starting curcuit to bypass the neutral switch so the engine can be started with the clutch pulled in and side stand up.



To date i have not seen an ecu which has changed behavior spontaneously like you suggest, sometimes an in-or output channel may be damaged by a fault induced by an operator but in general they are well padded from damage by design in their normal environment.
In the past i have tried to locate the name ( number ) of the patch but without success so i can't help you there.

The fact that the cb1000rr iacv did not have the desired result supports the heat related degradation theory.
The iacv is constantly at work in the engine supported by the software behavior, first when the engine initialises at key-on when the meters sweep the iacv is opened up fully to the end-of -travel ( which is why there is a spring on the piston ) so the ecu now knows it's position and then closes a number of steps depending on the engine temperature to settle on 1500 rpm and gradually slow down to 1050 rpm with a warmed up engine, and also when the throttle is used, when the clutch is pulled in etc, so it works constantly to adjust idle speed.

If you switch the ignition key on and immediately start the engine during the initialization cycle it revs faster ( because it is close to the open-end-of-travel ) and quickly settles at the desired revs at the time.

it receives a small number of pulses from the ecu, i think the length ( duty cycle ) of these pulses is smaller in the 2014 models but initially just big enough to operate the iacv correctly but after the iacv has been heated up and loses magnetism they are no longer able to control the iacv as normal.
The software changes ( increases ) the available pulse width to match the other model's cb1100 and so restores control of the iacv i think.

Having said all that it would be a really nice situation if the patch was available because it would save a lot of work, so best of luck with the endeavor.

That "takeoff assist" is annoying, and with the extra high idle issue, it can be somewhat unsafe during low speed maneuvers as it jumps up to 2k sometimes. I would prefer to remove that function completely.

Yep, hopefully we can get some more info from Enzo if his dealer gives him the software patch #

(05-18-2022, 05:35 AM)whizzle_dizzler_imp Wrote:

(05-17-2022, 05:42 PM)Enzofour_imp Wrote: When I replaced the IACV, a few days later the dealer installed a software patch that he had received from Honda in 2014 to fix the low or high rpm ramdom problems.
I haven't had any issues to date, but I can't guarantee if the solution was the IACV replacement or the patch or both.

Do you think you could ask your dealer if they had a number on that software patch? I just got off the phone with my local service department. They looked up the VIN, but didn't come up with any service bulletins regarding the idle issues. I'm planning on heading to the dealer this Saturday so they can hook it up to their diag tools, so hopefully I can get some more information to get this (and everyone's bike) sorted.

(05-17-2022, 09:36 PM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote:

(05-17-2022, 08:30 PM)whizzle_dizzler_imp Wrote: I'm thinking that I also have an ECU issue.

Has anyone here figured out the "regular" idle in gear, and while letting out the clutch, the revs rise in a sort of linear fashion with the release? I hadn't looked into that aspect of the problem yet, as I was hoping I wouldn't need to, and the only thing that I'm aware of that would communicate with the bike would be the clutch switch, but that should only be on/off.

As much as I dislike talking to the dealer, I suppose I should contact a few of them to look into this software patch.

I only saw that behaviour - and only a couple of times - when riding with a "cold" engine at around -20C in winter. It took about five to ten minutes to go away and after the engine could reach operating temperature. This was the exception, not typical.

Since I ride all year round, I've had experienced almost everyday of commuting in a year from 14*F - 100*F, and my bike's issue is very consistent. It may ride and idle fine for a few minutes, but no matter what day, the problem will still show its ugly face. The only thing symptom that hasn't yet appeared this season, is the idle rpm hasn't started dropping while sitting in traffic like it's about to die.

(05-18-2022, 02:33 AM)max_imp Wrote: The clutch switch is connected to the ecu and has a sort of " takeoff assist " function when the clutch is released, it is also hard-wired to the starting curcuit to bypass the neutral switch so the engine can be started with the clutch pulled in and side stand up.



To date i have not seen an ecu which has changed behavior spontaneously like you suggest, sometimes an in-or output channel may be damaged by a fault induced by an operator but in general they are well padded from damage by design in their normal environment.
In the past i have tried to locate the name ( number ) of the patch but without success so i can't help you there.

The fact that the cb1000rr iacv did not have the desired result supports the heat related degradation theory.
The iacv is constantly at work in the engine supported by the software behavior, first when the engine initialises at key-on when the meters sweep the iacv is opened up fully to the end-of -travel ( which is why there is a spring on the piston ) so the ecu now knows it's position and then closes a number of steps depending on the engine temperature to settle on 1500 rpm and gradually slow down to 1050 rpm with a warmed up engine, and also when the throttle is used, when the clutch is pulled in etc, so it works constantly to adjust idle speed.

If you switch the ignition key on and immediately start the engine during the initialization cycle it revs faster ( because it is close to the open-end-of-travel ) and quickly settles at the desired revs at the time.

it receives a small number of pulses from the ecu, i think the length ( duty cycle ) of these pulses is smaller in the 2014 models but initially just big enough to operate the iacv correctly but after the iacv has been heated up and loses magnetism they are no longer able to control the iacv as normal.
The software changes ( increases ) the available pulse width to match the other model's cb1100 and so restores control of the iacv i think.

Having said all that it would be a really nice situation if the patch was available because it would save a lot of work, so best of luck with the endeavor.

That "takeoff assist" is annoying, and with the extra high idle issue, it can be somewhat unsafe during low speed maneuvers as it jumps up to 2k sometimes. I would prefer to remove that function completely.

Yep, hopefully we can get some more info from Enzo if his dealer gives him the software patch #

(05-17-2022, 09:36 PM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote:

(05-17-2022, 08:30 PM)whizzle_dizzler_imp Wrote: I'm thinking that I also have an ECU issue.

Has anyone here figured out the "regular" idle in gear, and while letting out the clutch, the revs rise in a sort of linear fashion with the release? I hadn't looked into that aspect of the problem yet, as I was hoping I wouldn't need to, and the only thing that I'm aware of that would communicate with the bike would be the clutch switch, but that should only be on/off.

As much as I dislike talking to the dealer, I suppose I should contact a few of them to look into this software patch.

I only saw that behaviour - and only a couple of times - when riding with a "cold" engine at around -20C in winter. It took about five to ten minutes to go away and after the engine could reach operating temperature. This was the exception, not typical.

(05-18-2022, 02:33 AM)max_imp Wrote: The clutch switch is connected to the ecu and has a sort of " takeoff assist " function when the clutch is released, it is also hard-wired to the starting curcuit to bypass the neutral switch so the engine can be started with the clutch pulled in and side stand up.



To date i have not seen an ecu which has changed behavior spontaneously like you suggest, sometimes an in-or output channel may be damaged by a fault induced by an operator but in general they are well padded from damage by design in their normal environment.
In the past i have tried to locate the name ( number ) of the patch but without success so i can't help you there.

The fact that the cb1000rr iacv did not have the desired result supports the heat related degradation theory.
The iacv is constantly at work in the engine supported by the software behavior, first when the engine initialises at key-on when the meters sweep the iacv is opened up fully to the end-of -travel ( which is why there is a spring on the piston ) so the ecu now knows it's position and then closes a number of steps depending on the engine temperature to settle on 1500 rpm and gradually slow down to 1050 rpm with a warmed up engine, and also when the throttle is used, when the clutch is pulled in etc, so it works constantly to adjust idle speed.

If you switch the ignition key on and immediately start the engine during the initialization cycle it revs faster ( because it is close to the open-end-of-travel ) and quickly settles at the desired revs at the time.

it receives a small number of pulses from the ecu, i think the length ( duty cycle ) of these pulses is smaller in the 2014 models but initially just big enough to operate the iacv correctly but after the iacv has been heated up and loses magnetism they are no longer able to control the iacv as normal.
The software changes ( increases ) the available pulse width to match the other model's cb1100 and so restores control of the iacv i think.

Having said all that it would be a really nice situation if the patch was available because it would save a lot of work, so best of luck with the endeavor.

(05-17-2022, 12:23 PM)max_imp Wrote: As you may have read some lucky members have permanently fixed their issue with a software update, not possible in the us, e.p.a. is a scary thing so the dealers are not prepared to risk their business i believe.

Every single cb with this issue ( mostly the 2014 models ) started good as gold but something changed over time and we never saw any wear or dirt in the valve body, so what gives?

And i don't know of any member who did not have success with a new iacv, to me it is the lack of control from the ecu,
( hence the software " update " ) i think the older iacv's permanent magnets have degraded to the point where they no longer control the iacv correctly.

A lot of times this has happened after the engine has been very warm, permanent magnets lose magnetism if the temperature rises, the iacv is in a hot place and that is why i have come to this conclusion.

You may be in a unique position to evaluate the " magnetic torque " difference between an old and a new one firsthand.........

Haya Doc.