(03-23-2019, 05:21 PM)Csory_imp Wrote: Bazbro: the "algorithm" of the display right now:

0. User menu (if selected by 3 direct flashes at the bottom of the unit within 15s after power-up), as long as it takes.

1. Boot-time animation, user selectable out of 6 different eye-candies.

2. Battery voltage until engine fired up, but at least 10s

3. Lowest cranking voltage after engine fired up, for 10s with flashing"LCU" message once per second

4. Oil temp displayed until oil gets warmer than 60C/140F with flashing "OIL" message once per second. Should oil temperature not rise to this level after 20 minutes (might happen in extreme circumstances) it switches to air temp display.

5. Air temp displayed (no flashing markers, just the temperature). I believe this could be considered as "settled down"

To install over the Honda logo I'll have to create an alternative housing. Temp sensor, light sensor, cables will have to be routed through the forward looking side (bottom side would be unusable, being the mating surface...)
GoldOxide: Thanks

* Please see my previous post about the current "algorithm" and timings. It settles down to air temp only.

* It's a bit like NYC - never sleeps

* Oil flickers once per sec until engine gets warmed up a bit (60C or 140F). If it does not warm up after 20 minutes it stops flickering anyways and goes to air temp. Flickering is meant to "warn" the rider to be easy on the throttle.

* Using the decimal/non decimal as a visual clue is a great idea! Now that you came up with it, I can even use the decimal points as a "marker" - have 3 of them! Say, 2 on the left could be air temp, 2 on the right oil temp, single one battery, or something along these lines...

A few things I learned from yesterday riding:

1. The display is too bright. Will have to reduce current (i.e. change in hardware). This will - as a side effect - extend the life expectancy of the display and also cut down power consumption (now around 10 milliamps, but will be about halved - practically nothing with a running alternator).

2. The display is too "reflective", i.e. direct sunlight makes it look busy with detail. Its not distracting, just not as pleasing as it could be. Will change the housing and move the display deeper behind the glass (about the same depth as the instrument panel LCD is). Will also try covering with a thin layer of matte lacquer.

3. Thermal coupling between the oil temp sensor and the oil line is crappy. It keeps showing oil temp at 55C even under extended load (riding up the mountains), after stopping it jumps to normal levels. Must be wind cooling effect. Will cover in aluminum tape and see if that helps. In that case will have to come up with an alternate method to mount the sensor to the oil line. If the problem lies with the engine cutting off (shunting) oil cooler depending on load and temp, will have to move the sensor to somewhere on the crankcase.

4. Flickering OIL (and LCU) messages are a bit too obnoxious. Will change to non-flickering ones (or just a few slow blinks) and see. Might be easier on the eyes - and less prone to cause problems for people with lurking PSE (photosensitive epilepsy).

Also, what Bazbro asked for: to have a mounting option over the "Honda" logo would require a new (bigger) housing to flow nicely with the outline. May even opt for splitting display and "brains" for better look.
Oh, just one more thing: if you fire up the engine while the boot-time animation is still running, it will entirely "miss" the lowest-cranking-voltage reading. (The microcontroller is busy animating, and does not read sensors during that phase). I can't do anything about this - to put it simple, the micro has not enough program space to make boot-time animations multi-tasked...

(03-23-2019, 05:21 PM)Csory_imp Wrote: Bazbro: the "algorithm" of the display right now:

0. User menu (if selected by 3 direct flashes at the bottom of the unit within 15s after power-up), as long as it takes.

1. Boot-time animation, user selectable out of 6 different eye-candies.

2. Battery voltage until engine fired up, but at least 10s

3. Lowest cranking voltage after engine fired up, for 10s with flashing"LCU" message once per second

4. Oil temp displayed until oil gets warmer than 60C/140F with flashing "OIL" message once per second. Should oil temperature not rise to this level after 20 minutes (might happen in extreme circumstances) it switches to air temp display.

5. Air temp displayed (no flashing markers, just the temperature). I believe this could be considered as "settled down"

To install over the Honda logo I'll have to create an alternative housing. Temp sensor, light sensor, cables will have to be routed through the forward looking side (bottom side would be unusable, being the mating surface...)
GoldOxide: Thanks

* Please see my previous post about the current "algorithm" and timings. It settles down to air temp only.

* It's a bit like NYC - never sleeps

* Oil flickers once per sec until engine gets warmed up a bit (60C or 140F). If it does not warm up after 20 minutes it stops flickering anyways and goes to air temp. Flickering is meant to "warn" the rider to be easy on the throttle.

* Using the decimal/non decimal as a visual clue is a great idea! Now that you came up with it, I can even use the decimal points as a "marker" - have 3 of them! Say, 2 on the left could be air temp, 2 on the right oil temp, single one battery, or something along these lines...

A few things I learned from yesterday riding:

1. The display is too bright. Will have to reduce current (i.e. change in hardware). This will - as a side effect - extend the life expectancy of the display and also cut down power consumption (now around 10 milliamps, but will be about halved - practically nothing with a running alternator).

2. The display is too "reflective", i.e. direct sunlight makes it look busy with detail. Its not distracting, just not as pleasing as it could be. Will change the housing and move the display deeper behind the glass (about the same depth as the instrument panel LCD is). Will also try covering with a thin layer of matte lacquer.

3. Thermal coupling between the oil temp sensor and the oil line is crappy. It keeps showing oil temp at 55C even under extended load (riding up the mountains), after stopping it jumps to normal levels. Must be wind cooling effect. Will cover in aluminum tape and see if that helps. In that case will have to come up with an alternate method to mount the sensor to the oil line. If the problem lies with the engine cutting off (shunting) oil cooler depending on load and temp, will have to move the sensor to somewhere on the crankcase.

4. Flickering OIL (and LCU) messages are a bit too obnoxious. Will change to non-flickering ones (or just a few slow blinks) and see. Might be easier on the eyes - and less prone to cause problems for people with lurking PSE (photosensitive epilepsy).

Also, what Bazbro asked for: to have a mounting option over the "Honda" logo would require a new (bigger) housing to flow nicely with the outline. May even opt for splitting display and "brains" for better look.
Oh, just one more thing: if you fire up the engine while the boot-time animation is still running, it will entirely "miss" the lowest-cranking-voltage reading. (The microcontroller is busy animating, and does not read sensors during that phase). I can't do anything about this - to put it simple, the micro has not enough program space to make boot-time animations multi-tasked...

(03-23-2019, 05:21 PM)Csory_imp Wrote: Bazbro: the "algorithm" of the display right now:

0. User menu (if selected by 3 direct flashes at the bottom of the unit within 15s after power-up), as long as it takes.

1. Boot-time animation, user selectable out of 6 different eye-candies.

2. Battery voltage until engine fired up, but at least 10s

3. Lowest cranking voltage after engine fired up, for 10s with flashing"LCU" message once per second

4. Oil temp displayed until oil gets warmer than 60C/140F with flashing "OIL" message once per second. Should oil temperature not rise to this level after 20 minutes (might happen in extreme circumstances) it switches to air temp display.

5. Air temp displayed (no flashing markers, just the temperature). I believe this could be considered as "settled down"

To install over the Honda logo I'll have to create an alternative housing. Temp sensor, light sensor, cables will have to be routed through the forward looking side (bottom side would be unusable, being the mating surface...)
GoldOxide: Thanks

* Please see my previous post about the current "algorithm" and timings. It settles down to air temp only.

* It's a bit like NYC - never sleeps

* Oil flickers once per sec until engine gets warmed up a bit (60C or 140F). If it does not warm up after 20 minutes it stops flickering anyways and goes to air temp. Flickering is meant to "warn" the rider to be easy on the throttle.

* Using the decimal/non decimal as a visual clue is a great idea! Now that you came up with it, I can even use the decimal points as a "marker" - have 3 of them! Say, 2 on the left could be air temp, 2 on the right oil temp, single one battery, or something along these lines...

A few things I learned from yesterday riding:

1. The display is too bright. Will have to reduce current (i.e. change in hardware). This will - as a side effect - extend the life expectancy of the display and also cut down power consumption (now around 10 milliamps, but will be about halved - practically nothing with a running alternator).

2. The display is too "reflective", i.e. direct sunlight makes it look busy with detail. Its not distracting, just not as pleasing as it could be. Will change the housing and move the display deeper behind the glass (about the same depth as the instrument panel LCD is). Will also try covering with a thin layer of matte lacquer.

3. Thermal coupling between the oil temp sensor and the oil line is crappy. It keeps showing oil temp at 55C even under extended load (riding up the mountains), after stopping it jumps to normal levels. Must be wind cooling effect. Will cover in aluminum tape and see if that helps. In that case will have to come up with an alternate method to mount the sensor to the oil line. If the problem lies with the engine cutting off (shunting) oil cooler depending on load and temp, will have to move the sensor to somewhere on the crankcase.

4. Flickering OIL (and LCU) messages are a bit too obnoxious. Will change to non-flickering ones (or just a few slow blinks) and see. Might be easier on the eyes - and less prone to cause problems for people with lurking PSE (photosensitive epilepsy).

Also, what Bazbro asked for: to have a mounting option over the "Honda" logo would require a new (bigger) housing to flow nicely with the outline. May even opt for splitting display and "brains" for better look.
Oh, just one more thing: if you fire up the engine while the boot-time animation is still running, it will entirely "miss" the lowest-cranking-voltage reading. (The microcontroller is busy animating, and does not read sensors during that phase). I can't do anything about this - to put it simple, the micro has not enough program space to make boot-time animations multi-tasked...

(03-23-2019, 05:21 PM)Csory_imp Wrote: Bazbro: the "algorithm" of the display right now:

0. User menu (if selected by 3 direct flashes at the bottom of the unit within 15s after power-up), as long as it takes.

1. Boot-time animation, user selectable out of 6 different eye-candies.

2. Battery voltage until engine fired up, but at least 10s

3. Lowest cranking voltage after engine fired up, for 10s with flashing"LCU" message once per second

4. Oil temp displayed until oil gets warmer than 60C/140F with flashing "OIL" message once per second. Should oil temperature not rise to this level after 20 minutes (might happen in extreme circumstances) it switches to air temp display.

5. Air temp displayed (no flashing markers, just the temperature). I believe this could be considered as "settled down"

To install over the Honda logo I'll have to create an alternative housing. Temp sensor, light sensor, cables will have to be routed through the forward looking side (bottom side would be unusable, being the mating surface...)
GoldOxide: Thanks

* Please see my previous post about the current "algorithm" and timings. It settles down to air temp only.

* It's a bit like NYC - never sleeps

* Oil flickers once per sec until engine gets warmed up a bit (60C or 140F). If it does not warm up after 20 minutes it stops flickering anyways and goes to air temp. Flickering is meant to "warn" the rider to be easy on the throttle.

* Using the decimal/non decimal as a visual clue is a great idea! Now that you came up with it, I can even use the decimal points as a "marker" - have 3 of them! Say, 2 on the left could be air temp, 2 on the right oil temp, single one battery, or something along these lines...

A few things I learned from yesterday riding:

1. The display is too bright. Will have to reduce current (i.e. change in hardware). This will - as a side effect - extend the life expectancy of the display and also cut down power consumption (now around 10 milliamps, but will be about halved - practically nothing with a running alternator).

2. The display is too "reflective", i.e. direct sunlight makes it look busy with detail. Its not distracting, just not as pleasing as it could be. Will change the housing and move the display deeper behind the glass (about the same depth as the instrument panel LCD is). Will also try covering with a thin layer of matte lacquer.

3. Thermal coupling between the oil temp sensor and the oil line is crappy. It keeps showing oil temp at 55C even under extended load (riding up the mountains), after stopping it jumps to normal levels. Must be wind cooling effect. Will cover in aluminum tape and see if that helps. In that case will have to come up with an alternate method to mount the sensor to the oil line. If the problem lies with the engine cutting off (shunting) oil cooler depending on load and temp, will have to move the sensor to somewhere on the crankcase.

4. Flickering OIL (and LCU) messages are a bit too obnoxious. Will change to non-flickering ones (or just a few slow blinks) and see. Might be easier on the eyes - and less prone to cause problems for people with lurking PSE (photosensitive epilepsy).

Also, what Bazbro asked for: to have a mounting option over the "Honda" logo would require a new (bigger) housing to flow nicely with the outline. May even opt for splitting display and "brains" for better look.
Oh, just one more thing: if you fire up the engine while the boot-time animation is still running, it will entirely "miss" the lowest-cranking-voltage reading. (The microcontroller is busy animating, and does not read sensors during that phase). I can't do anything about this - to put it simple, the micro has not enough program space to make boot-time animations multi-tasked...

(03-24-2019, 12:28 AM)Lord Popgun_imp Wrote: GO, there is no thermostat for the oil cooler shown on the oil system diagram in the service manual. Oil flows all the time through it. Oil leaving the cooler goes to the spark plug area, then on.

I have an oil temp indicator on my CB. It uses a flat probe that slides between the cooler fins and comes with a paste to close off the front openining. I also put it on either side to reduce the air coolin on either side of the probe.

(03-24-2019, 12:28 AM)Lord Popgun_imp Wrote: GO, there is no thermostat for the oil cooler shown on the oil system diagram in the service manual. Oil flows all the time through it. Oil leaving the cooler goes to the spark plug area, then on.

I have an oil temp indicator on my CB. It uses a flat probe that slides between the cooler fins and comes with a paste to close off the front openining. I also put it on either side to reduce the air coolin on either side of the probe.

(03-24-2019, 03:03 AM)Csory_imp Wrote: GoldOxide: responses to your responses below:

GO: * Should we be also concerned at the other end of the spectrum when the oil gets too hot? I understand when it is cold, but I thought (maybe incorrectly) that the oil cooler is closed when oil is cold, somewhat like a water-cooling thermostat. I thought too hot oil was the reason for the oil radiator in the first place. Maybe just worry about the "hot" end of the oil temperature spectrum instead of the cold? Every vehicle starts with cold oil, but not every vehicle has a hot oil problem.

There is already an idiot-light that should come up when the oil is too hot. At least it is there on my '18. Should the gadget also give "hot" warnings? Doable, just didn't feel the need. But again, you might be right...

GO: * Oil cooler should be free-flowing at normal engine operating temperature and higher. Perhaps you are right regarding sensor cooling. If you shroud or house the sensor, remember to leave a tiny air gap between surface being measured and sensor. Also note, such similar modification will invalidate your ambient air temperature readings.

Tried shrouding with a single layer of aluminum tape, but is is still over-cooled. Ambient and oil temp sensors are two different units, at different locations - they don't interfere. Or is it not what you meant? Also, leaving a gap between the surface (oil line) and the sensor? What would that be good for?

GO: * Keep in mind that if there is opportunity to deploy The Gadget onto other bikes (people may ask!), you may want to consider keeping the default design as generic as possible. Possibly, the common element can be "inserted" into various custom housings as they arise? Or do both: Let owners craft their own housing around your "common element", but if they want a CB1100 solution, you already have one available.

Sounds good! Will run a few more rounds to see if there is anything I could change to make arrangement more "universal". Baz's comment led me to keep thinking about the possibility of a split-design, a brain with all the good stuff (possibly even a button! ) and a display, as small and sleek as possible. Will make a mockup...

GO: * As neat as the animation is, I would rather have the functionality over the animation. Such a decision would hopefully ease your firmware design constraints.

Yeah, I'll probably go that route. Maybe a _very_ short boot sequence, 1s max...

(03-24-2019, 03:03 AM)Csory_imp Wrote: GoldOxide: responses to your responses below:

GO: * Should we be also concerned at the other end of the spectrum when the oil gets too hot? I understand when it is cold, but I thought (maybe incorrectly) that the oil cooler is closed when oil is cold, somewhat like a water-cooling thermostat. I thought too hot oil was the reason for the oil radiator in the first place. Maybe just worry about the "hot" end of the oil temperature spectrum instead of the cold? Every vehicle starts with cold oil, but not every vehicle has a hot oil problem.

There is already an idiot-light that should come up when the oil is too hot. At least it is there on my '18. Should the gadget also give "hot" warnings? Doable, just didn't feel the need. But again, you might be right...

GO: * Oil cooler should be free-flowing at normal engine operating temperature and higher. Perhaps you are right regarding sensor cooling. If you shroud or house the sensor, remember to leave a tiny air gap between surface being measured and sensor. Also note, such similar modification will invalidate your ambient air temperature readings.

Tried shrouding with a single layer of aluminum tape, but is is still over-cooled. Ambient and oil temp sensors are two different units, at different locations - they don't interfere. Or is it not what you meant? Also, leaving a gap between the surface (oil line) and the sensor? What would that be good for?

GO: * Keep in mind that if there is opportunity to deploy The Gadget onto other bikes (people may ask!), you may want to consider keeping the default design as generic as possible. Possibly, the common element can be "inserted" into various custom housings as they arise? Or do both: Let owners craft their own housing around your "common element", but if they want a CB1100 solution, you already have one available.

Sounds good! Will run a few more rounds to see if there is anything I could change to make arrangement more "universal". Baz's comment led me to keep thinking about the possibility of a split-design, a brain with all the good stuff (possibly even a button! ) and a display, as small and sleek as possible. Will make a mockup...

GO: * As neat as the animation is, I would rather have the functionality over the animation. Such a decision would hopefully ease your firmware design constraints.

Yeah, I'll probably go that route. Maybe a _very_ short boot sequence, 1s max...

(03-24-2019, 03:03 AM)Csory_imp Wrote: GoldOxide: responses to your responses below:

GO: * Should we be also concerned at the other end of the spectrum when the oil gets too hot? I understand when it is cold, but I thought (maybe incorrectly) that the oil cooler is closed when oil is cold, somewhat like a water-cooling thermostat. I thought too hot oil was the reason for the oil radiator in the first place. Maybe just worry about the "hot" end of the oil temperature spectrum instead of the cold? Every vehicle starts with cold oil, but not every vehicle has a hot oil problem.

There is already an idiot-light that should come up when the oil is too hot. At least it is there on my '18. Should the gadget also give "hot" warnings? Doable, just didn't feel the need. But again, you might be right...

GO: * Oil cooler should be free-flowing at normal engine operating temperature and higher. Perhaps you are right regarding sensor cooling. If you shroud or house the sensor, remember to leave a tiny air gap between surface being measured and sensor. Also note, such similar modification will invalidate your ambient air temperature readings.

Tried shrouding with a single layer of aluminum tape, but is is still over-cooled. Ambient and oil temp sensors are two different units, at different locations - they don't interfere. Or is it not what you meant? Also, leaving a gap between the surface (oil line) and the sensor? What would that be good for?

GO: * Keep in mind that if there is opportunity to deploy The Gadget onto other bikes (people may ask!), you may want to consider keeping the default design as generic as possible. Possibly, the common element can be "inserted" into various custom housings as they arise? Or do both: Let owners craft their own housing around your "common element", but if they want a CB1100 solution, you already have one available.

Sounds good! Will run a few more rounds to see if there is anything I could change to make arrangement more "universal". Baz's comment led me to keep thinking about the possibility of a split-design, a brain with all the good stuff (possibly even a button! ) and a display, as small and sleek as possible. Will make a mockup...

GO: * As neat as the animation is, I would rather have the functionality over the animation. Such a decision would hopefully ease your firmware design constraints.

Yeah, I'll probably go that route. Maybe a _very_ short boot sequence, 1s max...

(03-24-2019, 03:03 AM)Csory_imp Wrote: GoldOxide: responses to your responses below:

GO: * Should we be also concerned at the other end of the spectrum when the oil gets too hot? I understand when it is cold, but I thought (maybe incorrectly) that the oil cooler is closed when oil is cold, somewhat like a water-cooling thermostat. I thought too hot oil was the reason for the oil radiator in the first place. Maybe just worry about the "hot" end of the oil temperature spectrum instead of the cold? Every vehicle starts with cold oil, but not every vehicle has a hot oil problem.

There is already an idiot-light that should come up when the oil is too hot. At least it is there on my '18. Should the gadget also give "hot" warnings? Doable, just didn't feel the need. But again, you might be right...

GO: * Oil cooler should be free-flowing at normal engine operating temperature and higher. Perhaps you are right regarding sensor cooling. If you shroud or house the sensor, remember to leave a tiny air gap between surface being measured and sensor. Also note, such similar modification will invalidate your ambient air temperature readings.

Tried shrouding with a single layer of aluminum tape, but is is still over-cooled. Ambient and oil temp sensors are two different units, at different locations - they don't interfere. Or is it not what you meant? Also, leaving a gap between the surface (oil line) and the sensor? What would that be good for?

GO: * Keep in mind that if there is opportunity to deploy The Gadget onto other bikes (people may ask!), you may want to consider keeping the default design as generic as possible. Possibly, the common element can be "inserted" into various custom housings as they arise? Or do both: Let owners craft their own housing around your "common element", but if they want a CB1100 solution, you already have one available.

Sounds good! Will run a few more rounds to see if there is anything I could change to make arrangement more "universal". Baz's comment led me to keep thinking about the possibility of a split-design, a brain with all the good stuff (possibly even a button! ) and a display, as small and sleek as possible. Will make a mockup...

GO: * As neat as the animation is, I would rather have the functionality over the animation. Such a decision would hopefully ease your firmware design constraints.

Yeah, I'll probably go that route. Maybe a _very_ short boot sequence, 1s max...

(03-24-2019, 06:11 AM)Bazbro_imp Wrote: I always believed that if the oil warning "idiot light" came on, it was probably already too late and the damage was done. Hence the need for more info beforehand.
But maybe that was just referring to oil "pressure"?