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+--- Thread: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem (/showthread.php?tid=4140)
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RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem - pdedse - 10-11-2019
I found the post from SportsterDoc that I was looking for. It gives one a starting point:
(12-27-2017, 02:31 AM)SportsterDoc_imp Wrote: Summary, to date:
Regarding popgun's post 619, referencing "BBS" issues on the Honda Rune Forum: Further research indicates that BBS is black exhaust smoke and fouled spark plugs from running too rich, which that forum has attributed to a TPS issue.
Suggestions if you experience low/high idle issues:
1. Check for active codes, per page 5-12 & 5-13 of the Factory Service Manual, checking the codes lists on pages 5-15 & 5-16
2. Check for stored codes, per pages 5-14 of the FSM
3. If no codes, then insure that there is no vacuum leak. An unlit propane torch applying propane to intake areas, engine at idle, will detect a leak by listening for a change in idle speed. Check vacuum hoses and fittings, one 4 way (17201-MCJ-003, $7) and one 5 way (17201-MCZ-003, $5.60), then snug all 8 clamps from throttle bodies to intake.
A. Disconnect Throttle Position Sensor connector (engine OFF), clean contacts (contact cleaner available at Home Depot or Lowes, etc.), check for damaged wiring and reconnect. GO FOR A RIDE. If issue persists, continue
B. Disconnect Idle Air Control Valve, clean contacts, check for damaged wiring and reconnect. GO FOR A RIDE. If issue persists, continue
C. Follow TPS diagnostics per pages 5-23 thru 5-25 of the FSM. Note comments in posts 615, 618 & 622, especially see Max's post 632 regarding TPS output test. If output is not 0.5 VDC, loosen fasteners (ignition on, engine NOT running) and rotate TPS to obtain 0.5 VDC, throttle closed. After adjusting TPS throttle closed output, do a throttle calibration with ignition on, engine NOT running, by SLOWLY opening and closing throttle, 2-3 times. GO FOR A RIDE. If issue persists, continue
D. Follow IACV diagnostics per pages 5-74 & 5-75 of the FSM. If OK, then remove IACV, clean IACV port and check for unobstructed travel. If not OK, IACV (16430-MJF-D01) is $119.13 from Honda. GO FOR A RIDE. If issue persists, continue
E. Follow EOT (Engine Oil Temperature Sensor) diagnostics per 5-21 of FSM, particularly resistance value of 2.4 to 2.9 Kohms (2,400 to 2,900 ohms) at 20C / 68 F. If not OK, EOT sensor (37750-KPH-701) is $34.56 from Honda. GO FOR A RIDE. If issue persists, re-check the FSM diagnostics. Note that a faulty ECM is a possibility, albeit rare. The only time I recall a failed ECM on a Sportster, was due to an internal 5 VDC sensor power supply failure.
The EOT (Engine Oil Temperature) sensor and IACV (idle Air Control Valve) are available from Honda. The Honda Rune Forum has posted a TPS replacement for the Keihin JT6H TPS: 16060-MBZ-A11, $114.29 from honda. This is for a 2006 CB600F. The Rune Forum posted that this sensor is a Keihin JT6H, but we have not yet verified compatibility
For non-USA owners, check that the latest ECM program is installed by your dealer.
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem - SportsterDoc - 10-27-2019
From reviewing recent posts on this thread and the Curley Joe Spreadsheet, I am inclined to conclude that most issues are IACV and/or ECM program related, with the exception of a damaged TPS wire and maybe one EOT.
The problem with my suggestion D was not knowing the effort and complexity required to remove the IACV until Dave did so.
Those replacing the entire throttle body assembly, including Riko, replaced the IACV, which "resolved" his issue.
Proper diagnostics replaces speculation.
At this point in history, I would suggest the diagnostic steps to rule out TPS and EOT, save D for last, then focus on IACV and/or new ECM program, if outside USA.
14 months since I parted with my final bike (#17).
12,500 miles in 10 months.
6th nerve palsy of right eye is now history. Wife and kids signed me up for an intro helicopter lesson, but I have not yet set a time.
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem - peterbaron - 10-27-2019
SportsterDoc, nice to hear about your health improving
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem - the Ferret - 10-28-2019
Hard to believe it's been 14 months doc. Helicopter? I know a guy that became a helicopter pilot. He said keeping those things in the air is a real chore.
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem - SportsterDoc - 10-28-2019
(10-27-2019, 10:22 PM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: SportsterDoc, nice to hear about your health improving
Thanks, Peter.
I think I am in good health for approaching 73, but it seems I cannot work on something without cuts and bruises.
Son called Saturday about driver's window stuck down on 1989 F-250.
Did not take long to get it back into the channels and adjust track spacing, but there is a lot of sharp sheet metal under the door panel!
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem - peterbaron - 10-28-2019
(10-28-2019, 07:54 AM)SportsterDoc_imp Wrote:(10-27-2019, 10:22 PM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: SportsterDoc, nice to hear about your health improving
Thanks, Peter.
I think I am in good health for approaching 73, but it seems I cannot work on something without cuts and bruises.
Son called Saturday about driver's window stuck down on 1989 F-250.
Did not take long to get it back into the channels and adjust track spacing, but there is a lot of sharp sheet metal under the door panel!
Thanks, Peter.
I think I am in good health for approaching 73, but it seems I cannot work on something without cuts and bruises.
Son called Saturday about driver's window stuck down on 1989 F-250.
Did not take long to get it back into the channels and adjust track spacing, but there is a lot of sharp sheet metal under the door panel!
Once you posses certain skills, the demand never forgets about you. Same here, just working part time for few more months, before full retirement.
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem - SportsterDoc - 10-28-2019
(10-28-2019, 02:35 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Hard to believe it's been 14 months doc. Helicopter? I know a guy that became a helicopter pilot. He said keeping those things in the air is a real chore.
Yep, probably more risk than motorcycling, but I made wife and extended family a promise about motorcycling, but not about aviation...which they are supporting.
On a Robinson R22, a simple and common two seater, if the engine loses power, despite typical aviation dual ignition systems, the window to disengage the clutch, to avoid freefall, is only about 1.6 seconds, due to low enertia rotors.
Basic controls
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mC8KxV0chhI
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem - the Ferret - 10-28-2019
Lol yea that doesnt look complicated at all. Kinda like early early motorcycles. Left handlebar controls the choke, right handle bar controls the throttle, left foot controls the clutch, right foot controls the rear brake, right hand controls the front brake, left hand controls the shift lever.....
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem - SportsterDoc - 10-28-2019
Cyclic and collective, plus foot pedals are basics, but monitoring RPM clutch and manifold pressure are critical.
Controls are mainly about pitch...treat the engine as driving a class 8 tractor: Narrow RPM range.
I plan to participate in preflight inspection, especially of belts!
https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/4120236/ai-2009-038_final.pdf
Back to topic, idle issues can be diagnosed by following FSM proceedures...it is not a mystery.
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem - pdedse - 10-28-2019
(10-28-2019, 08:09 AM)SportsterDoc_imp Wrote:(10-28-2019, 02:35 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Hard to believe it's been 14 months doc. Helicopter? I know a guy that became a helicopter pilot. He said keeping those things in the air is a real chore.
Yep, probably more risk than motorcycling, but I made wife and extended family a promise about motorcycling, but not about aviation...which they are supporting.
On a Robinson R22, a simple and common two seater, if the engine loses power, despite typical aviation dual ignition systems, the window to disengage the clutch, to avoid freefall, is only about 1.6 seconds, due to low enertia rotors.
Basic controls
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mC8KxV0chhI
Are those instructions written on the back of the instructor's hand at the 1:48 mark?
