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+--- Thread: The true beauty of this motorcycle. (another LONG read) (/showthread.php?tid=1611)
RE: The true beauty of this motorcycle. (another LONG read) - Guth_imp - 01-09-2018
The problem is that many of these things are simply too subjective and there are very few people that are totally pleased with every single aspect of this bike (or any bike for that matter).
You guys are talking about a lot of different variables, yet even those of us who really like the CB1100 can't agree about something as simple as the seat. Some of us are perfectly fine with the seat that came with the bike from the factory, while others are ready to bin the thing before they are even able to make it all the way home from the dealership the first day of ownership. Jeez, I'm almost surprised that we haven't had someone who trailered their CB home from the dealer report that their butt hurt from just looking at the seat in their rear view mirror, lol. Similarly one man's smooth, refined, engine is another man's buzzing nightmare, and so on, and so forth. It's almost a miracle that we can all manage to hang out here together and still get along after all this time. The reality is that we all typically have a few things that we are willing to compromise on and other things that we simply aren't willing to compromise on. Those things will vary for each and every one of us.
Most all of us here like the CB1100 quite a bit. However, if someone were to conduct a study I'd imagine that they would likely determine we tend to like this motorcycle for a wide variety of reasons and those reasons would probably differ a fair amount from one person to the next (but with a few key reasons that are practically universal among us).
RE: The true beauty of this motorcycle. (another LONG read) - Cormanus - 01-09-2018
I still remember walking into a Honda showroom in late 2010 and seeing a white CB1100 and saying to the sales person, ‘I want one of those’. ‘Take it for a test ride, mate,’ he said. I didn’t for various reasons, but I should have. It took me 3 years to get one.
It was the look that did it for me. It was the bike I’d wanted back in the day when a 4-cylinder bike was all the one to have.
pdedse, far from being pedantic, I found your markedness theory really helpful in understanding why some things appeal and others don’t. It is, I suppose, a form of bias, but it seems to me to provide an understanding of,why we are biased.
VLJ, I too will look forward to hearing how you find the CB1100. Like Guth, I remain unconvinced that it is the bike for you. When you enjoy really pushing a bike through the corners, why would you have one that can’t do it? I understand the urge to slow down, but I’m not sure I understand the desire to give up riding machines designed and tuned to do the things you say you really enjoy.
I’ve been wrong before.
RE: The true beauty of this motorcycle. (another LONG read) - pdedse - 01-09-2018
(01-09-2018, 04:18 PM)VLJ_imp Wrote: mickey, this is one of the videos I've seen that has me wondering...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVDSXaIGEJs
Apparently top gear is limited to 5k, not 6k. Now, does that 5K rev limiter only apply to fifth and sixth gears, or does it include fourth gear too? I know I read somewhere that it cuts fifth and sixth gears, but I think it may also cut fourth gear.
You and Ulvetanna are correct in that I don't really need it to pull redline in sixth. 112 mph or whatever the limited top speed is on this thing is fine. I rarely take the XSR any faster than that, and I usually back off at 110 mph. So, no biggie there. What does concern me, however, is being unable to pull past 5K rpm in fourth gear. That would be frustrating. On those occasions when I do hit 110 mph on the XSR, I'm usually in third or fourth gear, not top gear. Now that I've had the ECU reflashed to remove all the XSR's limiters, I've never even visited redline in fifth or sixth gear.
Moving on...
LongRanger Wrote:Sorry folks, but I expect VLJ will be disappointed, just based on his expectations and preconceived notions. Slow? Soft and heavy? Anemic? Gutless?
I've never ridden the thing, but yes, that is how the bike is described by a lot of people. It's all relative, of course, as a CB assuredly feels like a Hayabusa compared to some bikes, but it apparently feels very slow, soft, and heavy when compared to something as mild-mannered as an R-Nine-T, which isn't a particularly fast, light, or agile bike.
I honestly don't expect to be disappointed by the CB's power. Having spent a decade as a motorcycle dealer, I've ridden a million bikes. I have a pretty good idea of what 550 lbs and 85rwhp from an 1100cc I4 biased for smooth linearity will translate to, in terms of acceleration. I'm not expecting it to slingshot me forward the way my XSR does. I'm simply hoping it will be in the ballpark of the T120 down low and throughout the midrange, with perhaps a bit more on top.
Quote:Having to downshift twice just to pass a line of cars?
Yes, I have read that. I've experienced it myself on other bikes, usually those that have dedicated top-gear overdrives. Where the CB is concerned, supposedly the acceleration is so smooth and linear that top gear simply doesn't provide any immediate acceleration for quick passes.
Of course not everyone says that. Plenty of people who've ridden the CB describe no such problem. I assume it's all down to one's frame of reference/expectations.
pdedse, many ride reviews of the CB mention the fingers-numbing engine buzz, usually with the caveat that it's only present at 5K and above. They also usually add that it's not really necessary, and rather pointless, to ride this bike at those RPM. The long review I just finished reading a few minutes ago said that 75 mph in sixth gear is the point at which the high-frequency vibes begin to become annoying. Below 75 mph it's buttery smooth, he said.
I've certainly encountered this sort of high-frequency I4 buzz before, on many of my own bikes. None of them turned as few RPM as the CB does for any given speed, though, so I tend to believe mickey's descriptions of just how smooth the thing is at real-world freeway speeds. I won't be averaging much more than 75 mph on the freeway. I'll zip it up to 100 now and then, but I won't hang there, so I suspect it'll be fine.
Understood, I had heard of that before buying the bike...maybe it's because I never sustained at 5k rpm for any length of time. On my trip through Montana, Wyoming, and SD, I was regulary at 75-85mph for loooong stretches, mainly in 6th gear, but shifting in to 5th to pass at times. I can't recall once feeling any buziness. But maybe I was just delirous from riding through SD.
RE: The true beauty of this motorcycle. (another LONG read) - Bheezy27403_imp - 01-09-2018
Really looking forward to a VLJ test ride report on Sunday eve. Not that all the hemming and hawing isn't entertaining, I just want to hear his take on this big girl.
RE: The true beauty of this motorcycle. (another LONG read) - johnf514_imp - 01-09-2018
(01-09-2018, 11:25 PM)Bheezy27403_imp Wrote: Really looking forward to a VLJ test ride report on Sunday eve. Not that all the hemming and hawing isn't entertaining, I just want to hear his take on this big girl.
+1, it's great to hear a critical and refreshed take on the CB1100. As someone who uses his ride to commute and has taken it to the track, the CB can handle a wide ranged of unmarkedness.
RE: The true beauty of this motorcycle. (another LONG read) - the Ferret - 01-10-2018
mickey, this is one of the videos I've seen that has me wondering...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVDSXaIGEJs
That video shows the rider hitting the 180 kph (112 mph) top speed limiter in 6th, but it ran right up to that, but you couldn't see what it was doing in 4th or 5th because he short shifted at 3500 rpms like a lot of us do on this bike to take advantage of the torque curve. Actually if you wanted to feel the most pull, I would recommend shifting at the peak of the torque curve around 5000-5200 rpms.
RE: The true beauty of this motorcycle. (another LONG read) - LongRanger_imp - 01-10-2018
Any idea what tunnel that is? It has impressive length considering how long the rider was sustaining WFO.
RE: The true beauty of this motorcycle. (another LONG read) - Banned_imp - 01-10-2018
So as I understand it the Theory of Markedness is used as a descriptor primarily in the area of linguistics? I've not heard of it - not surprising as I did not attend grad or post grad school and my only real interest in linguistics stems from my search to find the gene responsible for language, a completely different area of research. Anyway, what you talk about is what I've always known as "imprinting", a quite well studied psychological term.
For example:
Nobody in my extended family both maternal and paternal rides motorcycles or is into cars, not an uncle, cousin, nobody. So how did I come to be a motorhead? Simple - the woman who babysat me from birth had an adult son who had a 1976 naked Gold Wing and a 1977 Córdoba (Forrest green with Thrush mufflers) and dragged me around with him everywhere. As well, there is a 1% Club that has been in my town since 1972 and as a young boy unaware of what they represent they certainly looked cool ripping up the street on their Harleys.
Where does that find me today? Well, my favourite 2 bikes are my '03 HD Nighttrain and my naked retro Honda. I love all bikes and would have at least one of each genre if I had the space. Oh, and I just sold my '77 Córdoba last year to buy a T/A.
He also liked to dress me in his engineer boots and hang a cigarette (which would have lasting effects) out of my mouth for pictures (it was the '70s) but I am happy to report that I have been smoke free for 15 years although I still wear engineer style boots.
As for the intangibles that draw me to the CB1100, a large factor is the history of the development of the current (our) CB. When I learned of the dedication, care and pride with which our current steed was brought into being I can't help but feel some of that pride bestowed upon me as one who wishes to be worthy of such a machine.
You'll probably think I'm crazy but as I ride the Blue Angel I feel those largely faceless and nameless engineers (and the great Soichiro Honda himself) riding and smiling with me. Nuts huh?
RE: The true beauty of this motorcycle. (another LONG read) - LongRanger_imp - 01-10-2018
W/R, that's a cool story. I suppose we all had early experiences which influenced us into adulthood. Mine was the 12-year old kid across the street who rode his CT-70 up and down the road (he became a 1%'er). Your story makes a lot of sense!
RE: The true beauty of this motorcycle. (another LONG read) - VLJ_imp - 01-10-2018
pdedse, according to mickey's rpm vs road-speed numbers, no, you shouldn't have encountered any excessive engine buzz during your trip through Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho. At the speeds you were going you were well below 5k rpm in top gear, even if you have an older five-speed.
This is why I'm not really worried about the engine buzz on the freeway. According to mickey, and Dirck at MC Daily, the CB is one of the smoothest I4s they've ever ridden, and has no issues whatsoever at freeway speeds. I've read reports from a few other people that said their hands were numb by the time they rode home from the dealer, but I discount such reports as being irrelevant outliers. I've ridden enough I4s, both large and small, to know I won't have that problem. If I can handle freeway slogging on a five-speed Bandit 1200S or FJ1200, or even a GSX-R750, I'm sure the CB will feel like a CBR1100XX Blackbird to me.
Now that was one smooooooth I4.
What I do worry about is whether the thing is too buzzy during sportier rides in the canyons, where I will most certainly zip right on through 5K on my way to redline. Supposedly this is where the CB can pose issues with excessive vibration, in that 6-8k range. Many reviewers describe the same issue with the Ninja 1000, that it's smooth as silk below a certain rpm, but annoyingly buzzy in the sportier RPM ranges. I've also heard the new Z900 described this way.
mickey, or anyone else who knows, how many gears are affected by that 5K rev limiter? Is it just fifth and sixth, or does it also include fourth gear?