The CB1100 Community Forum

(04-23-2018, 10:09 PM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Guth: I'll put it this way. I want to change the exhaust because I like the sound. but considering the astronomical insane cost of changing the exhaust, i *also* want it to improve performance, because if i can't have both, it's really hard to justify it being worth such an insane amount of money. Changing just the sound seems like a superficial waste of money to me. even a gain of 10 or more HP would be cool. That said, just changing the pipes is not all i'm going to do when I do my performance changes next year. so far i'm settled on changing the exhaust, having an ECU flash to maximize performance, and making sure the FI system is adjusted to work in concert with the new exhaust. Also, i'm going to change a sprocket and move the power band a bit. of course, a mechanic is going to be doing all this, i have no idea what i'm talking about. all that combined should provide me with a significant and noticable gain in overall throttle response.

So, i'm beginning to gather that if I get a Staintune and I want to increase performance, I'd have to go buy headers separately? Anybody got any suggestions?

Nowhere near that much from a muffler swap. At most only a few hp.

(04-23-2018, 10:09 PM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Guth: I'll put it this way. I want to change the exhaust because I like the sound. but considering the astronomical insane cost of changing the exhaust, i *also* want it to improve performance, because if i can't have both, it's really hard to justify it being worth such an insane amount of money. Changing just the sound seems like a superficial waste of money to me. even a gain of 10 or more HP would be cool. That said, just changing the pipes is not all i'm going to do when I do my performance changes next year. so far i'm settled on changing the exhaust, having an ECU flash to maximize performance, and making sure the FI system is adjusted to work in concert with the new exhaust. Also, i'm going to change a sprocket and move the power band a bit. of course, a mechanic is going to be doing all this, i have no idea what i'm talking about. all that combined should provide me with a significant and noticable gain in overall throttle response.

So, i'm beginning to gather that if I get a Staintune and I want to increase performance, I'd have to go buy headers separately? Anybody got any suggestions?

Yea- that is pretty much the standard on any bike, car, etc- open the intake and exhaust, give it a little more fuel to match. The problem on this bike is simply that none of those items are the bottleneck. So changing them does very little currently until the cork is removed. (cams)

(04-23-2018, 10:09 PM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Guth: I'll put it this way. I want to change the exhaust because I like the sound. but considering the astronomical insane cost of changing the exhaust, i *also* want it to improve performance, because if i can't have both, it's really hard to justify it being worth such an insane amount of money. Changing just the sound seems like a superficial waste of money to me. even a gain of 10 or more HP would be cool. That said, just changing the pipes is not all i'm going to do when I do my performance changes next year. so far i'm settled on changing the exhaust, having an ECU flash to maximize performance, and making sure the FI system is adjusted to work in concert with the new exhaust. Also, i'm going to change a sprocket and move the power band a bit. of course, a mechanic is going to be doing all this, i have no idea what i'm talking about. all that combined should provide me with a significant and noticable gain in overall throttle response.

So, i'm beginning to gather that if I get a Staintune and I want to increase performance, I'd have to go buy headers separately? Anybody got any suggestions?

Changing gearing does not change the shape of the power band. The dyno curve would remain the same.

Gearing is simply tq multiplication. A larger rear sprocket, or smaller front is the cheapest & quickest way to literally put more power to the rear wheel- but the way the power is delivered through the engine range does not change.

At this point- gearing is the greater impactful way to get more acceleration. You will notice it more- and the bike will be measurably faster from a gearing change than it will from any air filter, headers, muffler, ecu flash.

(04-23-2018, 10:09 PM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Guth: I'll put it this way. I want to change the exhaust because I like the sound. but considering the astronomical insane cost of changing the exhaust, i *also* want it to improve performance, because if i can't have both, it's really hard to justify it being worth such an insane amount of money. Changing just the sound seems like a superficial waste of money to me. even a gain of 10 or more HP would be cool. That said, just changing the pipes is not all i'm going to do when I do my performance changes next year. so far i'm settled on changing the exhaust, having an ECU flash to maximize performance, and making sure the FI system is adjusted to work in concert with the new exhaust. Also, i'm going to change a sprocket and move the power band a bit. of course, a mechanic is going to be doing all this, i have no idea what i'm talking about. all that combined should provide me with a significant and noticable gain in overall throttle response.

So, i'm beginning to gather that if I get a Staintune and I want to increase performance, I'd have to go buy headers separately? Anybody got any suggestions?

Since you are mentioning Staintune, I'm assuming you have a std bike. The common header I see for that is Arrow.

My only concern with removing the cat is how does the bike sound afterward? I know on many cars removing the cats sounds horrible- raspy, tinny.. bleh.

(04-23-2018, 10:49 PM)PowerDubs_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2018, 10:09 PM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Guth: I'll put it this way. I want to change the exhaust because I like the sound. but considering the astronomical insane cost of changing the exhaust, i *also* want it to improve performance, because if i can't have both, it's really hard to justify it being worth such an insane amount of money. Changing just the sound seems like a superficial waste of money to me. even a gain of 10 or more HP would be cool. That said, just changing the pipes is not all i'm going to do when I do my performance changes next year. so far i'm settled on changing the exhaust, having an ECU flash to maximize performance, and making sure the FI system is adjusted to work in concert with the new exhaust. Also, i'm going to change a sprocket and move the power band a bit. of course, a mechanic is going to be doing all this, i have no idea what i'm talking about. all that combined should provide me with a significant and noticable gain in overall throttle response.

So, i'm beginning to gather that if I get a Staintune and I want to increase performance, I'd have to go buy headers separately? Anybody got any suggestions?

Nowhere near that much from a muffler swap. At most only a few hp.

(04-23-2018, 10:09 PM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Guth: I'll put it this way. I want to change the exhaust because I like the sound. but considering the astronomical insane cost of changing the exhaust, i *also* want it to improve performance, because if i can't have both, it's really hard to justify it being worth such an insane amount of money. Changing just the sound seems like a superficial waste of money to me. even a gain of 10 or more HP would be cool. That said, just changing the pipes is not all i'm going to do when I do my performance changes next year. so far i'm settled on changing the exhaust, having an ECU flash to maximize performance, and making sure the FI system is adjusted to work in concert with the new exhaust. Also, i'm going to change a sprocket and move the power band a bit. of course, a mechanic is going to be doing all this, i have no idea what i'm talking about. all that combined should provide me with a significant and noticable gain in overall throttle response.

So, i'm beginning to gather that if I get a Staintune and I want to increase performance, I'd have to go buy headers separately? Anybody got any suggestions?

Yea- that is pretty much the standard on any bike, car, etc- open the intake and exhaust, give it a little more fuel to match. The problem on this bike is simply that none of those items are the bottleneck. So changing them does very little currently until the cork is removed. (cams)

(04-23-2018, 10:09 PM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Guth: I'll put it this way. I want to change the exhaust because I like the sound. but considering the astronomical insane cost of changing the exhaust, i *also* want it to improve performance, because if i can't have both, it's really hard to justify it being worth such an insane amount of money. Changing just the sound seems like a superficial waste of money to me. even a gain of 10 or more HP would be cool. That said, just changing the pipes is not all i'm going to do when I do my performance changes next year. so far i'm settled on changing the exhaust, having an ECU flash to maximize performance, and making sure the FI system is adjusted to work in concert with the new exhaust. Also, i'm going to change a sprocket and move the power band a bit. of course, a mechanic is going to be doing all this, i have no idea what i'm talking about. all that combined should provide me with a significant and noticable gain in overall throttle response.

So, i'm beginning to gather that if I get a Staintune and I want to increase performance, I'd have to go buy headers separately? Anybody got any suggestions?

Changing gearing does not change the shape of the power band. The dyno curve would remain the same.

Gearing is simply tq multiplication. A larger rear sprocket, or smaller front is the cheapest & quickest way to literally put more power to the rear wheel- but the way the power is delivered through the engine range does not change.

At this point- gearing is the greater impactful way to get more acceleration. You will notice it more- and the bike will be measurably faster from a gearing change than it will from any air filter, headers, muffler, ecu flash.

(04-23-2018, 10:09 PM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Guth: I'll put it this way. I want to change the exhaust because I like the sound. but considering the astronomical insane cost of changing the exhaust, i *also* want it to improve performance, because if i can't have both, it's really hard to justify it being worth such an insane amount of money. Changing just the sound seems like a superficial waste of money to me. even a gain of 10 or more HP would be cool. That said, just changing the pipes is not all i'm going to do when I do my performance changes next year. so far i'm settled on changing the exhaust, having an ECU flash to maximize performance, and making sure the FI system is adjusted to work in concert with the new exhaust. Also, i'm going to change a sprocket and move the power band a bit. of course, a mechanic is going to be doing all this, i have no idea what i'm talking about. all that combined should provide me with a significant and noticable gain in overall throttle response.

So, i'm beginning to gather that if I get a Staintune and I want to increase performance, I'd have to go buy headers separately? Anybody got any suggestions?

Since you are mentioning Staintune, I'm assuming you have a std bike. The common header I see for that is Arrow.

My only concern with removing the cat is how does the bike sound afterward? I know on many cars removing the cats sounds horrible- raspy, tinny.. bleh.

Nowhere near that much from a muffler swap. At most only a few hp.

(04-23-2018, 10:09 PM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Guth: I'll put it this way. I want to change the exhaust because I like the sound. but considering the astronomical insane cost of changing the exhaust, i *also* want it to improve performance, because if i can't have both, it's really hard to justify it being worth such an insane amount of money. Changing just the sound seems like a superficial waste of money to me. even a gain of 10 or more HP would be cool. That said, just changing the pipes is not all i'm going to do when I do my performance changes next year. so far i'm settled on changing the exhaust, having an ECU flash to maximize performance, and making sure the FI system is adjusted to work in concert with the new exhaust. Also, i'm going to change a sprocket and move the power band a bit. of course, a mechanic is going to be doing all this, i have no idea what i'm talking about. all that combined should provide me with a significant and noticable gain in overall throttle response.

So, i'm beginning to gather that if I get a Staintune and I want to increase performance, I'd have to go buy headers separately? Anybody got any suggestions?

Yea- that is pretty much the standard on any bike, car, etc- open the intake and exhaust, give it a little more fuel to match. The problem on this bike is simply that none of those items are the bottleneck. So changing them does very little currently until the cork is removed. (cams)

(04-23-2018, 10:09 PM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Guth: I'll put it this way. I want to change the exhaust because I like the sound. but considering the astronomical insane cost of changing the exhaust, i *also* want it to improve performance, because if i can't have both, it's really hard to justify it being worth such an insane amount of money. Changing just the sound seems like a superficial waste of money to me. even a gain of 10 or more HP would be cool. That said, just changing the pipes is not all i'm going to do when I do my performance changes next year. so far i'm settled on changing the exhaust, having an ECU flash to maximize performance, and making sure the FI system is adjusted to work in concert with the new exhaust. Also, i'm going to change a sprocket and move the power band a bit. of course, a mechanic is going to be doing all this, i have no idea what i'm talking about. all that combined should provide me with a significant and noticable gain in overall throttle response.

So, i'm beginning to gather that if I get a Staintune and I want to increase performance, I'd have to go buy headers separately? Anybody got any suggestions?

Changing gearing does not change the shape of the power band. The dyno curve would remain the same.

Gearing is simply tq multiplication. A larger rear sprocket, or smaller front is the cheapest & quickest way to literally put more power to the rear wheel- but the way the power is delivered through the engine range does not change.

At this point- gearing is the greater impactful way to get more acceleration. You will notice it more- and the bike will be measurably faster from a gearing change than it will from any air filter, headers, muffler, ecu flash.

(04-23-2018, 10:09 PM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Guth: I'll put it this way. I want to change the exhaust because I like the sound. but considering the astronomical insane cost of changing the exhaust, i *also* want it to improve performance, because if i can't have both, it's really hard to justify it being worth such an insane amount of money. Changing just the sound seems like a superficial waste of money to me. even a gain of 10 or more HP would be cool. That said, just changing the pipes is not all i'm going to do when I do my performance changes next year. so far i'm settled on changing the exhaust, having an ECU flash to maximize performance, and making sure the FI system is adjusted to work in concert with the new exhaust. Also, i'm going to change a sprocket and move the power band a bit. of course, a mechanic is going to be doing all this, i have no idea what i'm talking about. all that combined should provide me with a significant and noticable gain in overall throttle response.

So, i'm beginning to gather that if I get a Staintune and I want to increase performance, I'd have to go buy headers separately? Anybody got any suggestions?

Since you are mentioning Staintune, I'm assuming you have a std bike. The common header I see for that is Arrow.

My only concern with removing the cat is how does the bike sound afterward? I know on many cars removing the cats sounds horrible- raspy, tinny.. bleh.
ok, stick with me here, because i'm only a lay person basing this on what the almighty internet tells me, but my impression was that a complete exhaust replacement could open up air flow to give you an increase of anywhere between 5 and 15 hp (specific to the CB1100). It could be that Staintune is simply the wrong exhaust to get the most out of the bike performance-wise, but their own website claims an increase of 7hp from (apparently) the slip-on muffler alone. Arrow's website claims a gain of 10hp and 7.65nm for their complete system, so my assumption was that the Staintune would be similar or about the same if a complete system were used. a lot of people on the net reccomend the Yoshimura or Moirwaki exhaust systems, but i can't find any information on how they'd affect performance, and frankly i just don't like those matte black pipes.

As for the ECU and fuel tuning part of this, I really haven't read anything concrete on just how much power overall you get from that, but you seem to be suggesting that it does basically nothing. Do you (or anybody) have any concrete numbers from a before/after measurement of BHP from a CB11 that's had this done? I'd be curious to know just what I'm paying for if I have misconceptions.

I suppose the sprocket bit was explained to me wrong then. The way multiple people had put it was that the BHP comes in earlier on the RPM band if you change the sprockets out, but you're suggesting it's really just an increase in torque. Torque is good. I like torque, so i'm inclined to say that I still want to do it.

Finally. "removing the cat" that's short for a term i don't know.

There are other threads about trying to gain extra HP and torque. I think the general conclusion is, from what I've read over the past two years, about a 5 HP gain and about 5 more pounds of torque, according to the dyno charts I've seen posted here. That's a really poor return on investment: ECU re-flash, Power Commander, new airbox, new headers and can, and a dyno run if you really want to do things completely--you're getting close to $3000. After all that, a different stock bike for less money is still going to make more power. My thoughts: Spend that money on better riding gear and advanced riding classes--maybe even do some track days. You'll have way more confidence and fun than you'll get from an extra 5 ponies. Plus, when you change bikes, your investment goes with you . If you're going to put money into the performance of your CB, think about upgrading the tires and suspension. Or improve the comfort. Or make it look a certain way with custom parts. My $.02.

PowerDubs has all good comments/advice in his post 51.
Without changing cams, the CB, out of the crate, is very close to as good as it gets.

I have modified intake and exhaust on most of my 17 bikes. The Triumph and Sportsters benefited the most. The dealer loaded an Arrow tune (no charge) into the Triumph, even though it had a factory exhaust (later opened up) to reduce any chances of lean operation (2012 Bonneville).

BTW, the Bonneville benefited greatly from snorkle removal, but little from drilling out exhaust.

For the CB:
1. ECM: Best running bike I have owned**, operated cold, operated hot or restart after a brief cooling down. I would be hesitant to change anything. I have never exceeded 8,000 RPMs (reached only occasionally and very briefly) and zero desire to push red-line above the stock 8,500. Seldom exceed 6,000. The speed limiter may be an irritation from a matter of freedom, but I really have no need to exceed 110 MPH, anyway...and it does reach 110 very quickly and with little effort. The CB will reach 110 MPH about the same as my 2002 H-D 1200 Sport (dual plug heads, W grind cams, stage 1 intake and exhaust mods), with over 70 HP @ 5,700 RPM/79 ft lbs torque at 4,000 RPM (stock), only much smoother. It was capable of over 120, but only once did I take to 110.

2. Intake: I sliced off the top of the intake tube, directly over the air filter. I like the sound (sounds like an unfiltered 4 barrel), but notice little if any improvement in performance. Maybe slight improvement at altitude (I go to 8,500 feet frequently). The air filter can been seen, with only removing the side cover.

3. Exhaust: I drilled three 1/2" holes in the area under the conical cover, around the circumference of the exhaust pipe, to bypass normally muffled flow. I liked it for the sound accelerating and decelerating, but did not like the sound at idle. I then drilled and tapped to install flat plate covers over those holes (now hiden by conical cover). I could detect no improvement in performance. I would change the exhaust only if a different sound were desired.

Bottom line, I am extremely pleased with a virtually stock CB1100. On remote desert highways, it goes from 70 to 90 very quickly to pass, usually in 6th gear.

Stock performance:
86 HP @ 7500 RPM
65.6 ft lbs @ 5700 RPM
0-30 1.2 seconds
0-60 3.3 seconds
0-90 6.8 seconds
0-100 8.6 seconds
1/4 mile 12.11 seconds @ 109.25

** Comparing my EFI bikes:
2012 Triumph Bonneville was excellent, after Arrow tune, but I did not first ride it stock to compare.
2018 Yamaha XT250 EFI was flawless.
2016 Moto Guzzi V7II was terrible. It needed at least a minute warm up from cold to even operate it slow. It would balk, upon the mildest attempt to accelerate upon restart, after a few minute shutdown, despite a several mile ride, unless I allowed it 1/2 minute to re-warm. It was traded after 7,000 miles/7 months operation.

Excellent comments from Roper in post 53.

Side note for those on this forum who may consider all Harley's slow:

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/lsr_gallery.htm

RGR, so to confirm what i'm hearing here: All the BHP gains i've been reading about/been told about are lies, and the true gain is never any more than about 5 HP in total from fueling/air modification. That does change my plans if true. Understand, it's very misleading when i poke around on the net and read posts from people raving about how much more power and throttle response they get when they do an ECU flash, only find out later that it's really just a piddly increase in performance. I'm glad there's somebody out there willing to tell me how it really goes.

IIRC the weight difference between the stock Honda muffler and the Staintune was something like 3 or 4 pounds, as measured by forum members, and the gain in hp was like 3 or 4 hp as measured by forum members dyno reports.

I don't think anyone ever gained 10 hp with an exhaust change only, even a complete system.

Back in the day, when they were putting larger jets in the carbs, opening up the air restriction with pod filters and then adding a freer flowing pipe they might have gained more than 10 hp. Cams have always been the secret to gaining hp. Well that and increasing displacement aka Big Bore Kits. nothing like that available for the CB1100.

Like Powerdubs said, altering gearing is a really good/inexpensive way to make it FEEL like it has more hp even if it doesn't.

I have been modifying engines in cars and motorcycles for a few decades.

Not to get off topic- but I have done port jobs, bigger valves, countless camshafts, custom intake manifolds, numerous headers, high flow cats, mufflers, jetted carbs, bigger carbs, bored out TB's, individual TB's, bigger injectors, ecu tunes... you name it. And yea literally hundreds of dyno runs and several hundred drag strip runs.

What I can tell you- most important, don't believe manufacturer #'s.

2nd thing- don't add #'s you see listed for products together for a lump sum.

3rd thing- most larger power gains on old engines are not available anymore from a design stand point.

The port design, valve sizing, filter/intake cfm, exhaust design/cfm, and yes even fueling and ign curves are already near optimal from the factory on just about anything- right down to a lowly Kia.

Long gone are horrible inefficiencies from log manifolds, 2b carbs, casting slag, 2v heads... all you can really do is tweak a little to get back what they factory trimmed for emissions, fuel economy, noise, and low octane fuel. Not much.

You can throw the parts you are talking about (full exhaust / ecu flash / intake mods ) and after having spent an easy $1,000+ you will end up with less than a 10whp gain. While the bike will feel and sound better- the difference in actual acceleration won't be enough to make up any difference in rider ability.

What I mean by that- take your bike when done- and another rider on a stock bike. There is a good chance the stock bike would still win a race- something as simple as launch rpm, or a difference in shift points could easily make up the difference. And that is talking best case scenario- straight line staged start. In the real world you are rolling on the throttle, in who knows what gear.

So- back to gears- an engine makes the power, all the gearing does is manipulate that power. Like a breaker bar on a ratchet or tire iron. Changing a sprocket has ZERO effect on the power the engine makes, does not change anything about how much power it makes at any rpm.

Gearing changes how that power is sent from the engine to the wheel. Like a 10-speed bicycle. You changing gears on the bicycle doesn't make your legs any stronger. Changing the sprocket on the motorcycle is the same. You know when you downshift from 4th to 3rd to accelerate? If you put a larger rear sprocket or a smaller front- you are shifting all 6 gears downward.

Also- people get confused on tq and hp. They are one and the same. In fact- engines don't make hp- they make tq and then you calculate hp from that.

HP=TQxRPM/5252

So if you know how much tq an engine makes at any rpm you can figure out the hp # for that rpm as well.

Have fun, do what you want to do..that's how you learn, but don't be surprised at the results and placebo effect of a lighter wallet. I'm not saying there isn't power potential in 1140cc, I'm saying the bottleneck is not the normal easy parts everyone is doing.

If you want to learn how an engine works, especially in the realm of hotrodding them and making power or moving power bands around- this is not the engine to start on.

(04-24-2018, 12:45 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: [ -> ]IIRC the weight difference between the stock Honda muffler and the Staintune was something like 3 or 4 pounds, as measured by forum members, and the gain in hp was like 3 or 4 hp as measured by forum members dyno reports.

I don't think anyone ever gained 10 hp with an exhaust change only, even a complete system.

Back in the day, when they were putting larger jets in the carbs, opening up the air restriction with pod filters and then adding a freer flowing pipe they might have gained more than 10 hp. Cams have always been the secret to gaining hp. Well that and increasing displacement aka Big Bore Kits. nothing like that available for the CB1100.

Like Powerdubs said, altering gearing is a really good/inexpensive way to make it FEEL like it has more hp even if it doesn't.

if the actual available power doesn't change, would you say I could get the same effect by simply altering my riding technique?

(04-24-2018, 12:50 AM)PowerDubs_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I have been modifying engines in cars and motorcycles for a few decades.

Not to get off topic- but I have done port jobs, bigger valves, countless camshafts, custom intake manifolds, numerous headers, high flow cats, mufflers, jetted carbs, bigger carbs, bored out TB's, individual TB's, bigger injectors, ecu tunes... you name it. And yea literally hundreds of dyno runs and several hundred drag strip runs.

What I can tell you- most important, don't believe manufacturer #'s.

2nd thing- don't add #'s you see listed for products together for a lump sum.

3rd thing- most larger power gains on old engines are not available anymore from a design stand point.

The port design, valve sizing, filter/intake cfm, exhaust design/cfm, and yes even fueling and ign curves are already near optimal from the factory on just about anything- right down to a lowly Kia.

Long gone are horrible inefficiencies from log manifolds, 2b carbs, casting slag, 2v heads... all you can really do is tweak a little to get back what they factory trimmed for emissions, fuel economy, noise, and low octane fuel. Not much.

You can throw the parts you are talking about (full exhaust / ecu flash / intake mods ) and after having spent an easy $1,000+ you will end up with less than a 10whp gain. While the bike will feel and sound better- the difference in actual acceleration won't be enough to make up any difference in rider ability.

What I mean by that- take your bike when done- and another rider on a stock bike. There is a good chance the stock bike would still win a race- something as simple as launch rpm, or a difference in shift points could easily make up the difference. And that is talking best case scenario- straight line staged start. In the real world you are rolling on the throttle, in who knows what gear.

So- back to gears- an engine makes the power, all the gearing does is manipulate that power. Like a breaker bar on a ratchet or tire iron. Changing a sprocket has ZERO effect on the power the engine makes, does not change anything about how much power it makes at any rpm.

Gearing changes how that power is sent from the engine to the wheel. Like a 10-speed bicycle. You changing gears on the bicycle doesn't make your legs any stronger. Changing the sprocket on the motorcycle is the same. You know when you downshift from 4th to 3rd to accelerate? If you put a larger rear sprocket or a smaller front- you are shifting all 6 gears downward.

Also- people get confused on tq and hp. They are one and the same. In fact- engines don't make hp- they make tq and then you calculate hp from that.

HP=TQxRPM/5252

So if you know how much tq an engine makes at any rpm you can figure out the hp # for that rpm as well.

Have fun, do what you want to do..that's how you learn, but don't be surprised at the results and placebo effect of a lighter wallet. I'm not saying there isn't power potential in 1140cc, I'm saying the bottleneck is not the normal easy parts everyone is doing.

If you want to learn how an engine works, especially in the realm of hotrodding them and making power or moving power bands around- this is not the engine to start on.

Thanks for the rundown. I'm sure it will save me money in the end. And believe me, I don't have any ambition to learn this stuff/do it on my own. Every bit of this is outsourced to a mechanic (like you!), I just need to know what to ask for. My fear is that i'm going to ask for something stupid, and the mechanic, being a businessman, will just give it to me and happily take my money, the same way I would if somebody asked me for something stupid in their kitchen.

Honestly, I'm not even upset if there's no way to significantly improve the CB11's performance, I just wanted it to be everything it could be. From what you guys are saying, i'd get the most gains from just shedding weight and getting better tires, which I can wrap my head around a lot easier.

No, well maybe. If you are used to riding around in a certain gear at a certain rpm, riding around in 1 or 2 gears lower will make it feel peppier. I usually ride at 2500-3500 rpms in 5th or 6th gear at say 55 mph. If I were to ride around in at the same speed in 3rd gear, the rpms would be more like 4-6000 and it would feel peppier upon acceleration even though the motor is not any stronger actually. Changing gearing (lowering it with bigger rear sprocket or smaller front sprocket) has the same effect.

I think most of the riders here who do the ECU flash do it for two reasons: It smooths out throttle response, especially at low RPMs, and it removes the top end limiter (if that's what you want.) Don at Guhl Motors is the guy most of us work with. Here's one of many threads about the reflash: http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread....light=Guhl