(09-12-2021, 12:24 PM)Rboe_imp Wrote: [ -> ]EPA is closing a loop hole. Kinda surprised it took this long. The writing is on the wall for gas and diesel engines. Hydrogen and electrics (and perhaps a wild card not on the radar) are the future - pretty much after most of us are dead or having had our drivers licenses revoked. 
Jobs and parts industry: Meh. There will be new jobs and new parts to make - just like when cars replaced horses.
Another steam-like era is coming to pass. It just takes longer for this cycle.
(09-12-2021, 10:38 PM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2021, 12:24 PM)Rboe_imp Wrote: [ -> ]EPA is closing a loop hole. Kinda surprised it took this long. The writing is on the wall for gas and diesel engines. Hydrogen and electrics (and perhaps a wild card not on the radar) are the future - pretty much after most of us are dead or having had our drivers licenses revoked.
Jobs and parts industry: Meh. There will be new jobs and new parts to make - just like when cars replaced horses.
Another steam-like era is coming to pass. It just takes longer for this cycle.
Yeah, but it's not from a replacement technology, or even a law, but my a bureaucratic mandate.
The EPA has WAY too much power. If there is to be a law, it MUST go through congress and the President. I don't have an issue with clean air, but what they are doing will kill an industry and all of the jobs that go along with it.
Racing will become a thing of the past as anything that had a VIN is not allowed to be converted to race use, and those just starting out in the grass roots don't have the money for bespoke parts that would be required to get into the sport.
This will kill all forms of motorsport if for no other reason than there will be no more drivers coming up the pipeline to replace the older ones that retire/die.
You're not going to put a green newbe into a NASCAR cup car or into an INDY car.
Bah....this just makes me so angry.
(09-10-2021, 11:19 AM)Randy B_imp Wrote: [ -> ]That's the EPA causing this. They have been fining various business that have been tuning, or selling parts that they deem to be for the purpose of circumventing emission controls.
It's a shame because the EPA wants to prevent people from modifying any vehicle that ever had a VIN, even is that vehicle is to be never used on road ever again.
In other words if you want a racecar the vehicle and engine can never of had a VIN...period.
If they are allowed to continue with this path, the entire parts aftermarket industry is doomed and a lot of people will be put out of work.
Billions of dollars will be flushed down the toilet in an instant.
It wouldn't bother me if it put an end to obnoxiously loud exhaust pipes on motorcycles or cars, but so far i haven't read anything about loud aftermarket exhaust pipes no longer being made or sold.
Having attended MotoGP races, those bikes are insanely loud. They could have quiet exhausts and still race. If the mfgs were restricted to X amount of db's, they would just build exhausts to meet that rule and they would still race each other. They race electric bikes which don't have any exhaust noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ_fOz30TKY
(09-13-2021, 09:54 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2021, 11:19 AM)Randy B_imp Wrote: [ -> ]That's the EPA causing this. They have been fining various business that have been tuning, or selling parts that they deem to be for the purpose of circumventing emission controls.
It's a shame because the EPA wants to prevent people from modifying any vehicle that ever had a VIN, even is that vehicle is to be never used on road ever again.
In other words if you want a racecar the vehicle and engine can never of had a VIN...period.
If they are allowed to continue with this path, the entire parts aftermarket industry is doomed and a lot of people will be put out of work.
Billions of dollars will be flushed down the toilet in an instant.
It wouldn't bother me if it put an end to obnoxiously loud exhaust pipes on motorcycles or cars, but so far i haven't read anything about loud aftermarket exhaust pipes no longer being made or sold.
Having attended MotoGP races, those bikes are insanely loud. They could have quiet exhausts and still race. If the mfgs were restricted to X amount of db's, they would just build exhausts to meet that rule and they would still race each other. They race electric bikes which don't have any exhaust noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ_fOz30TKY
Kinda cool watching the ebike race.
(09-13-2021, 09:54 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2021, 11:19 AM)Randy B_imp Wrote: [ -> ]That's the EPA causing this. They have been fining various business that have been tuning, or selling parts that they deem to be for the purpose of circumventing emission controls.
It's a shame because the EPA wants to prevent people from modifying any vehicle that ever had a VIN, even is that vehicle is to be never used on road ever again.
In other words if you want a racecar the vehicle and engine can never of had a VIN...period.
If they are allowed to continue with this path, the entire parts aftermarket industry is doomed and a lot of people will be put out of work.
Billions of dollars will be flushed down the toilet in an instant.
It wouldn't bother me if it put an end to obnoxiously loud exhaust pipes on motorcycles or cars, but so far i haven't read anything about loud aftermarket exhaust pipes no longer being made or sold.
Having attended MotoGP races, those bikes are insanely loud. They could have quiet exhausts and still race. If the mfgs were restricted to X amount of db's, they would just build exhausts to meet that rule and they would still race each other. They race electric bikes which don't have any exhaust noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ_fOz30TKY
It wouldn't bother me if it put an end to obnoxiously loud exhaust pipes on motorcycles or cars, but so far i haven't read anything about loud aftermarket exhaust pipes no longer being made or sold.
Having attended MotoGP races, those bikes are insanely loud. They could have quiet exhausts and still race. If the mfgs were restricted to X amount of db's, they would just build exhausts to meet that rule and they would still race each other. They race electric bikes which don't have any exhaust noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ_fOz30TKY
I'm with you on the noise. I have had exhaust systems on my cars in the past, but NOTHING like what they are doing today with what seems like 6,000,000 DB noise levels. My cars had a good sound, not ear shattering and wake the dead type of sound.
My big issue here is they want to stop any and all modification of ANY production vehicle if it came with a VIN. This will KILL all grass roots racing of any type of motorsport because most people don't have the money or the skills to make a vehicle from scratch to go race.
Electric vehicles are cool and definitely have a place in the future, BUT... The EPA should not have the power to unilaterally mandate that people can't modify vehicles for race only use.
I also think that CA has gone too far with not allowing any modification to exhaust systems starting with vehicles manufactured from1-1-2013. So long as the DB level is legal, it shouldn't be an issue, but if it didn't come from the factory, it's not legal in this state.
If you can't tell, this is a sore spot with me. 99% of the cars produced will never be modified, but for those that are there should be SENSIBLE laws (not regulations) governing what modifications can be done. And this should be on a federal level, not state by state so as to reduce any confusion and so that manufacturers and consumers can easily understand what is legal and what isn't. Right now the rules, regulations and laws can confuse members of Mensa.
(09-13-2021, 09:54 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2021, 11:19 AM)Randy B_imp Wrote: [ -> ]That's the EPA causing this. They have been fining various business that have been tuning, or selling parts that they deem to be for the purpose of circumventing emission controls.
It's a shame because the EPA wants to prevent people from modifying any vehicle that ever had a VIN, even is that vehicle is to be never used on road ever again.
In other words if you want a racecar the vehicle and engine can never of had a VIN...period.
If they are allowed to continue with this path, the entire parts aftermarket industry is doomed and a lot of people will be put out of work.
Billions of dollars will be flushed down the toilet in an instant.
It wouldn't bother me if it put an end to obnoxiously loud exhaust pipes on motorcycles or cars, but so far i haven't read anything about loud aftermarket exhaust pipes no longer being made or sold.
Having attended MotoGP races, those bikes are insanely loud. They could have quiet exhausts and still race. If the mfgs were restricted to X amount of db's, they would just build exhausts to meet that rule and they would still race each other. They race electric bikes which don't have any exhaust noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ_fOz30TKY
Some racing regulations (like for Le Mans) put a limit on exhaust noise (too high for me, but there's a limit... which could be lowered).
On some tracks, like Silverstone, appart from the main events, vehicles are required to use a specific muffler (the same for all), or you can't race. At least this was the case for Renault World series. Also: on sunday, track must be closed during church service hours, as the village is so close to the racing track.
So yes: noise can be regulated without affecting the racing. It's just a culture of "more noise is cool and racy and brings fans" that's going to take a while to get rid of.
One of the big contributing factors in more closely regulating ECM modifications has been diesel trucks, which when stock are pretty clean. But some ECM mods can sometimes allow the diesel owner to emit excessive clouds of smoke at his discretion, known as "rolling coal", especially against bicyclists and motorcycles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nxgz6rOI_c
(09-16-2021, 03:33 AM)pekingduck_imp Wrote: [ -> ]One of the big contributing factors in more closely regulating ECM modifications has been diesel trucks, which when stock are pretty clean. But some ECM mods can sometimes allow the diesel owner to emit excessive clouds of smoke at his discretion, known as "rolling coal", especially against bicyclists and motorcycles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nxgz6rOI_c
And yet Ghul is targeted for tuning little motorcycle engines that even unrestricted dump far less pollution into the air versus the thousands of Billy Bob’s here that “roll coal” with impunity. You can see these trucks where I live almost every time you get in the car to run an errand. Dumping smoke on motorcycle riders, bicyclists and pedestrians is completely immature and repugnant. I guess Ghul was just low hanging fruit.
Anyone that this makes sad- purchase a power commander and autotune box while you still can- even if used.