The CB1100 Community Forum

(12-14-2020, 09:30 AM)j3gq_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I have been reading this thread with quite some interest, but it seems to beg the question : aren't there any professional tire tests for motorcycles ? May be I am not riding fast enough to ever "feel the difference in the twisties", and don't burn enough tire tread to buy 5 more pairs to remember and compare in a few years. I hear that there are more choices for the standard, than for the EX, but in any case, do you really "test" your tires ?
Don't get me wrong, don't say this thread is useless, I just can't imagine there ain't a better way than "liking" a tire.
Any objection, any other opinion I will read and consider with great care.

I noticed this in many threads, and gotta say I am quite amazed with your trust in OEM engineering, parts choices and recommendations. In reality tho, they are not perfect and very often after a certain amount of money has been spent by a company on development of a specific feature or characteristic the rest is an afterthought. And very often tires, switchgear, lighting, even suspension components are just pulled out of the box they have lying around. If every component of the every motorcycle, including the owners manual, would be critically engineered, motorcycles would be ridiculously expensive.
There is always a perspective that an OEM sets a machine for "optimal" performance, somewhere in the middle, with a specific type of rider in mind. And as we learn to get along with the bikes, we start riding them closer to the edge (or over the edge), that is when we upgrade the components to make the riding experience more suitable to the type of riding we do. And as I said before, tires and suspension components are usually the first ones to go, because someone rides more on the highway and requires a harder middle compound with higher longevity, someone rides in a wet climate and requires a tire with better water evaluation properties, someone rides only twisty mountain roads and wants a softer outer compound for better grip while leaned over. Suspension is the same, someone is of a lighter stature and perhaps finds suspension to hard and sitting in the top of the travel all the time, someone rides two up with luggage and requires a more firm setup in order not to bottom out on every road imperfection.
If you are perfectly happy with the bike as it came out of the showroom, then you are the lucky one, so just enjoy the ride

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

(12-14-2020, 09:30 AM)j3gq_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I have been reading this thread with quite some interest, but it seems to beg the question : aren't there any professional tire tests for motorcycles ? May be I am not riding fast enough to ever "feel the difference in the twisties", and don't burn enough tire tread to buy 5 more pairs to remember and compare in a few years. I hear that there are more choices for the standard, than for the EX, but in any case, do you really "test" your tires ?
Don't get me wrong, don't say this thread is useless, I just can't imagine there ain't a better way than "liking" a tire.
Any objection, any other opinion I will read and consider with great care.

I fully agree. I think that 95% of the average motorcycle riders does not remember objectively and accurately how the tire felt when they put it on their bike 3 years ago. And so what you get is that almost all riders are VERY happy with their new tires, not because they are X,Y or Z brand tires, but because they are NEW.

Having said that: of course some tires are better on wet surfaces, just because of their physical design & material. Others are better on soft surfaces, or for racing, etc. But WITHIN these different categories, the average joe will not find any difference, if tested several years apart, on an aging motorcycle (if it is even still the same bike), in different weather conditions, possibly on different roads, having obtained a different bodyweight, using different riding pants, etc.

In other words: pick the right category tire, and all you can do to compare the brands is checking the prices and perhaps how long (in km) they last for most riders.

My 2 cents. (and I have never heard of a really objective tire test. Would be very interesting though!)

(12-14-2020, 02:53 PM)bioman_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2020, 09:30 AM)j3gq_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I have been reading this thread with quite some interest, but it seems to beg the question : aren't there any professional tire tests for motorcycles ? May be I am not riding fast enough to ever "feel the difference in the twisties", and don't burn enough tire tread to buy 5 more pairs to remember and compare in a few years. I hear that there are more choices for the standard, than for the EX, but in any case, do you really "test" your tires ?
Don't get me wrong, don't say this thread is useless, I just can't imagine there ain't a better way than "liking" a tire.
Any objection, any other opinion I will read and consider with great care.

I fully agree. I think that 95% of the average motorcycle riders does not remember objectively and accurately how the tire felt when they put it on their bike 3 years ago. And so what you get is that almost all riders are VERY happy with their new tires, not because they are X,Y or Z brand tires, but because they are NEW.

Having said that: of course some tires are better on wet surfaces, just because of their physical design & material. Others are better on soft surfaces, or for racing, etc. But WITHIN these different categories, the average joe will not find any difference, if tested several years apart, on an aging motorcycle (if it is even still the same bike), in different weather conditions, possibly on different roads, having obtained a different bodyweight, using different riding pants, etc.

In other words: pick the right category tire, and all you can do to compare the brands is checking the prices and perhaps how long (in km) they last for most riders.

My 2 cents. (and I have never heard of a really objective tire test. Would be very interesting though!)

I fully agree. I think that 95% of the average motorcycle riders does not remember objectively and accurately how the tire felt when they put it on their bike 3 years ago. And so what you get is that almost all riders are VERY happy with their new tires, not because they are X,Y or Z brand tires, but because they are NEW.

Having said that: of course some tires are better on wet surfaces, just because of their physical design & material. Others are better on soft surfaces, or for racing, etc. But WITHIN these different categories, the average joe will not find any difference, if tested several years apart, on an aging motorcycle (if it is even still the same bike), in different weather conditions, possibly on different roads, having obtained a different bodyweight, using different riding pants, etc.

In other words: pick the right category tire, and all you can do to compare the brands is checking the prices and perhaps how long (in km) they last for most riders.

My 2 cents. (and I have never heard of a really objective tire test. Would be very interesting though!) Some independent companies do objective tire reviews and tests, some more comprehensive then others. For reference I'll attach a link to a Chaparral Motorsports 2020 adventure tire shootout, where they mount different tires on the same motorcycles and take them through a number of tests and compare the performance. It's just to understand the idea how the tires are tested from a consumer point of view, rather than developer point if view. They also take into account the price and other details in other to conclude what is good value for money, and which tire would suit a specific kind of rider.

https://youtu.be/gjtgLz1LjnE

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

Thanks for the link, Tod. You, j3gq and bioman raise a good point. It explains why I've always been sure I'm a good enough rider to notice the difference between tyre brands.

(12-14-2020, 01:52 PM)tod.branko_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2020, 09:30 AM)j3gq_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I have been reading this thread with quite some interest, but it seems to beg the question : aren't there any professional tire tests for motorcycles ? May be I am not riding fast enough to ever "feel the difference in the twisties", and don't burn enough tire tread to buy 5 more pairs to remember and compare in a few years. I hear that there are more choices for the standard, than for the EX, but in any case, do you really "test" your tires ?
Don't get me wrong, don't say this thread is useless, I just can't imagine there ain't a better way than "liking" a tire.
Any objection, any other opinion I will read and consider with great care.

I noticed this in many threads, and gotta say I am quite amazed with your trust in OEM engineering, parts choices and recommendations. In reality tho, they are not perfect and very often after a certain amount of money has been spent by a company on development of a specific feature or characteristic the rest is an afterthought. And very often tires, switchgear, lighting, even suspension components are just pulled out of the box they have lying around. If every component of the every motorcycle, including the owners manual, would be critically engineered, motorcycles would be ridiculously expensive.
There is always a perspective that an OEM sets a machine for "optimal" performance, somewhere in the middle, with a specific type of rider in mind. And as we learn to get along with the bikes, we start riding them closer to the edge (or over the edge), that is when we upgrade the components to make the riding experience more suitable to the type of riding we do. And as I said before, tires and suspension components are usually the first ones to go, because someone rides more on the highway and requires a harder middle compound with higher longevity, someone rides in a wet climate and requires a tire with better water evaluation properties, someone rides only twisty mountain roads and wants a softer outer compound for better grip while leaned over. Suspension is the same, someone is of a lighter stature and perhaps finds suspension to hard and sitting in the top of the travel all the time, someone rides two up with luggage and requires a more firm setup in order not to bottom out on every road imperfection.
If you are perfectly happy with the bike as it came out of the showroom, then you are the lucky one, so just enjoy the ride

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

@tod,
I do entirely agree with the text now highlighted in Italics. But the beginning of your answer confuses me a little. I did not say, and did not mean to say ANYTHING about OEM vs. aftermarket. My point was entirely about tire tests, and who is able to provide useful results. What made you misunderstand and say "trust in OEM" and why ?

(12-14-2020, 07:55 PM)j3gq_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2020, 01:52 PM)tod.branko_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2020, 09:30 AM)j3gq_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I have been reading this thread with quite some interest, but it seems to beg the question : aren't there any professional tire tests for motorcycles ? May be I am not riding fast enough to ever "feel the difference in the twisties", and don't burn enough tire tread to buy 5 more pairs to remember and compare in a few years. I hear that there are more choices for the standard, than for the EX, but in any case, do you really "test" your tires ?
Don't get me wrong, don't say this thread is useless, I just can't imagine there ain't a better way than "liking" a tire.
Any objection, any other opinion I will read and consider with great care.

I noticed this in many threads, and gotta say I am quite amazed with your trust in OEM engineering, parts choices and recommendations. In reality tho, they are not perfect and very often after a certain amount of money has been spent by a company on development of a specific feature or characteristic the rest is an afterthought. And very often tires, switchgear, lighting, even suspension components are just pulled out of the box they have lying around. If every component of the every motorcycle, including the owners manual, would be critically engineered, motorcycles would be ridiculously expensive.
There is always a perspective that an OEM sets a machine for "optimal" performance, somewhere in the middle, with a specific type of rider in mind. And as we learn to get along with the bikes, we start riding them closer to the edge (or over the edge), that is when we upgrade the components to make the riding experience more suitable to the type of riding we do. And as I said before, tires and suspension components are usually the first ones to go, because someone rides more on the highway and requires a harder middle compound with higher longevity, someone rides in a wet climate and requires a tire with better water evaluation properties, someone rides only twisty mountain roads and wants a softer outer compound for better grip while leaned over. Suspension is the same, someone is of a lighter stature and perhaps finds suspension to hard and sitting in the top of the travel all the time, someone rides two up with luggage and requires a more firm setup in order not to bottom out on every road imperfection.
If you are perfectly happy with the bike as it came out of the showroom, then you are the lucky one, so just enjoy the ride

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

@tod,
I do entirely agree with the text now highlighted in Italics. But the beginning of your answer confuses me a little. I did not say, and did not mean to say ANYTHING about OEM vs. aftermarket. My point was entirely about tire tests, and who is able to provide useful results. What made you misunderstand and say "trust in OEM" and why ?

@tod,
I do entirely agree with the text now highlighted in Italics. But the beginning of your answer confuses me a little. I did not say, and did not mean to say ANYTHING about OEM vs. aftermarket. My point was entirely about tire tests, and who is able to provide useful results. What made you misunderstand and say "trust in OEM" and why ? Firstly I apologise if my statement came of as an insult, it was not meant as such, it was just an observation, and I am not known for my diplomatic skills, so please take that to notice.

Now, what I was implying on was that I have noticed across the threads that you tend to quote manuals and insist on things being critically engineered, but it isn't such. And I accept that I could be wrong, in which case I take my words back.
I refer to manufacturers in general as OEMs, and it wasn't talking about OEM vs aftermarket, so that's a misunderstanding which I am guilty of. I hope this clears things up and you accept my apology.

Anyways, if I can paraphrase myself (and this is a personal opinion), this is something I tell my students all the time, one cannot trust a single source, especially an original one. People who created something did test it, but the profound knowledge comes for the real life experience of users and troubleshooting of problems that the creators haven't anticipated. So it doesn't matter if it's the oil weight, or a battery size, or the handlebar size and position.
I am also accepting the fact that not everyone uses a product exactly as the manufacturer intended it to be used (anyone who had ever used a pair of pliers to hit a nail on the head can testify to that) and again it's those applications that lead us to learn new things and apply the new-found knowledge. OEM User Manual will still remain the same.

Coming back to tires, what the manufacturer recommended is unlikely the perfect scenario, and users have the freedom to experiment and find their perfect setup for their intended use of the motorcycle.

Hope this makes things more clear, and again I apologise for any misunderstanding

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

I did not like the OEM Bridgestones on my 2013 and 2014 but love the OEM Dunlops on my 2017 and put a second set on .

Absolutely not need to apologize. My wife calls me a (sometimes wrongly provocative, while I think life is too short to be mellow all the time. But yes, I had the feeling you "figured me out wrong", and couldn't tell how my post on testing tires would fit in. On the contrary, wondering about independent tests should have struck a cord, because it is exactly what you are asking for : don't trust a single source. Anyway, not for nothing, we have a forum for working it out

(12-14-2020, 03:58 PM)tod.branko_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2020, 02:53 PM)bioman_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2020, 09:30 AM)j3gq_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I have been reading this thread with quite some interest, but it seems to beg the question : aren't there any professional tire tests for motorcycles ? May be I am not riding fast enough to ever "feel the difference in the twisties", and don't burn enough tire tread to buy 5 more pairs to remember and compare in a few years. I hear that there are more choices for the standard, than for the EX, but in any case, do you really "test" your tires ?
Don't get me wrong, don't say this thread is useless, I just can't imagine there ain't a better way than "liking" a tire.
Any objection, any other opinion I will read and consider with great care.

I fully agree. I think that 95% of the average motorcycle riders does not remember objectively and accurately how the tire felt when they put it on their bike 3 years ago. And so what you get is that almost all riders are VERY happy with their new tires, not because they are X,Y or Z brand tires, but because they are NEW.

Having said that: of course some tires are better on wet surfaces, just because of their physical design & material. Others are better on soft surfaces, or for racing, etc. But WITHIN these different categories, the average joe will not find any difference, if tested several years apart, on an aging motorcycle (if it is even still the same bike), in different weather conditions, possibly on different roads, having obtained a different bodyweight, using different riding pants, etc.

In other words: pick the right category tire, and all you can do to compare the brands is checking the prices and perhaps how long (in km) they last for most riders.

My 2 cents. (and I have never heard of a really objective tire test. Would be very interesting though!)

I fully agree. I think that 95% of the average motorcycle riders does not remember objectively and accurately how the tire felt when they put it on their bike 3 years ago. And so what you get is that almost all riders are VERY happy with their new tires, not because they are X,Y or Z brand tires, but because they are NEW.

Having said that: of course some tires are better on wet surfaces, just because of their physical design & material. Others are better on soft surfaces, or for racing, etc. But WITHIN these different categories, the average joe will not find any difference, if tested several years apart, on an aging motorcycle (if it is even still the same bike), in different weather conditions, possibly on different roads, having obtained a different bodyweight, using different riding pants, etc.

In other words: pick the right category tire, and all you can do to compare the brands is checking the prices and perhaps how long (in km) they last for most riders.

My 2 cents. (and I have never heard of a really objective tire test. Would be very interesting though!) Some independent companies do objective tire reviews and tests, some more comprehensive then others. For reference I'll attach a link to a Chaparral Motorsports 2020 adventure tire shootout, where they mount different tires on the same motorcycles and take them through a number of tests and compare the performance. It's just to understand the idea how the tires are tested from a consumer point of view, rather than developer point if view. They also take into account the price and other details in other to conclude what is good value for money, and which tire would suit a specific kind of rider.

https://youtu.be/gjtgLz1LjnE

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

Very interesting video! Thanks for suggesting it!

(12-14-2020, 10:03 PM)tod.branko_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2020, 07:55 PM)j3gq_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2020, 01:52 PM)tod.branko_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2020, 09:30 AM)j3gq_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I have been reading this thread with quite some interest, but it seems to beg the question : aren't there any professional tire tests for motorcycles ? May be I am not riding fast enough to ever "feel the difference in the twisties", and don't burn enough tire tread to buy 5 more pairs to remember and compare in a few years. I hear that there are more choices for the standard, than for the EX, but in any case, do you really "test" your tires ?
Don't get me wrong, don't say this thread is useless, I just can't imagine there ain't a better way than "liking" a tire.
Any objection, any other opinion I will read and consider with great care.

I noticed this in many threads, and gotta say I am quite amazed with your trust in OEM engineering, parts choices and recommendations. In reality tho, they are not perfect and very often after a certain amount of money has been spent by a company on development of a specific feature or characteristic the rest is an afterthought. And very often tires, switchgear, lighting, even suspension components are just pulled out of the box they have lying around. If every component of the every motorcycle, including the owners manual, would be critically engineered, motorcycles would be ridiculously expensive.
There is always a perspective that an OEM sets a machine for "optimal" performance, somewhere in the middle, with a specific type of rider in mind. And as we learn to get along with the bikes, we start riding them closer to the edge (or over the edge), that is when we upgrade the components to make the riding experience more suitable to the type of riding we do. And as I said before, tires and suspension components are usually the first ones to go, because someone rides more on the highway and requires a harder middle compound with higher longevity, someone rides in a wet climate and requires a tire with better water evaluation properties, someone rides only twisty mountain roads and wants a softer outer compound for better grip while leaned over. Suspension is the same, someone is of a lighter stature and perhaps finds suspension to hard and sitting in the top of the travel all the time, someone rides two up with luggage and requires a more firm setup in order not to bottom out on every road imperfection.
If you are perfectly happy with the bike as it came out of the showroom, then you are the lucky one, so just enjoy the ride

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

@tod,
I do entirely agree with the text now highlighted in Italics. But the beginning of your answer confuses me a little. I did not say, and did not mean to say ANYTHING about OEM vs. aftermarket. My point was entirely about tire tests, and who is able to provide useful results. What made you misunderstand and say "trust in OEM" and why ?

@tod,
I do entirely agree with the text now highlighted in Italics. But the beginning of your answer confuses me a little. I did not say, and did not mean to say ANYTHING about OEM vs. aftermarket. My point was entirely about tire tests, and who is able to provide useful results. What made you misunderstand and say "trust in OEM" and why ? Firstly I apologise if my statement came of as an insult, it was not meant as such, it was just an observation, and I am not known for my diplomatic skills, so please take that to notice.

Now, what I was implying on was that I have noticed across the threads that you tend to quote manuals and insist on things being critically engineered, but it isn't such. And I accept that I could be wrong, in which case I take my words back.
I refer to manufacturers in general as OEMs, and it wasn't talking about OEM vs aftermarket, so that's a misunderstanding which I am guilty of. I hope this clears things up and you accept my apology.

Anyways, if I can paraphrase myself (and this is a personal opinion), this is something I tell my students all the time, one cannot trust a single source, especially an original one. People who created something did test it, but the profound knowledge comes for the real life experience of users and troubleshooting of problems that the creators haven't anticipated. So it doesn't matter if it's the oil weight, or a battery size, or the handlebar size and position.
I am also accepting the fact that not everyone uses a product exactly as the manufacturer intended it to be used (anyone who had ever used a pair of pliers to hit a nail on the head can testify to that) and again it's those applications that lead us to learn new things and apply the new-found knowledge. OEM User Manual will still remain the same.

Coming back to tires, what the manufacturer recommended is unlikely the perfect scenario, and users have the freedom to experiment and find their perfect setup for their intended use of the motorcycle.

Hope this makes things more clear, and again I apologise for any misunderstanding

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

I would take that a step further in that although the manufacturers will specify the type, the choice they make for OEM is going to be guided by price as much as anything else. After all they are in the business of making money.