(11-04-2016, 08:58 AM)AzBob_imp Wrote: [ -> ] (11-01-2016, 12:24 AM)Haystack_imp Wrote: [ -> ]All engines consume oil. With 53,000 mi. on my '13 and oil changes every 5,000 mi. using HP4 10w-30 I see very little oil consumption between changes. A small smile always forms on my cynical face when I hear someone claim that their engine doesn't use "a drop of oil".
My experience is that all internal combustion engines consume oil, particularly air-cooled ones (all engines are air-cooled, regardless whether they have water in them or not). Even so-called liquid cooled engines are primarily air-cooled.
The oil filter will hold a significant amount of oil without it draining out. To determine the actual amount of oil contained in the filter would take a weight measurement before and after installation (minus the impurities contained in the filter at the time of removal). Who does that? In addition, oil will adhere to the engine internals, the container that it's drained into, etc. Since all liquids evaporate, including oil, even an engine that is never operated will "use oil" over time.
Enough rambling today, I must be bored.
False.
False.
What I saw posted was this: My experience is that all internal combustion engines consume oil, particularly air-cooled ones (all engines are air-cooled, regardless whether they have water in them or not).
He's right. Whether the bike has a radiator or not the air moving across the radiator is what cools the bike. (I know, I'm nitpicking.)
AzBob is right; it's fluid dynamics and thermodynamics working together. The contact of the water with the various surfaces of the engine is what cools to to a specified temperature. The water is then cooled by its movement through, and contact with, the radiator. The engine is directly cooled by liquid. The liquid is directly cooled by air. They are two separate systems.
Clearances in direct air-cooled engines are greater than in liquid-cooled engines because the range of temperature over which they operate is greater, so there must be additional room for pistons and cylinders to expand and contract. Piston and ring design can be different, as well.
Air-cooled aircraft engines consume a lot of oil, especially the big round ones. Gallons per flight.
If we take the "all engines are air-cooled" suggestion to its conclusion we would have to acknowledge that everything on Earth is cooled by the vacuum of outer space, which has no temperature, and is "as cold as you can get" with the lowest possible temperature being about -270 C.
Any oil residue collecting on the bottom of your engine coming from the oil filter? It is possibly you left the old filter's gasket in the filter housing's sealing groove and screwed on a new filter with its own gasket on the mating surface resulting in TWO O-rings "stacked" instead of one. This will generally result in an inadvertant slow oil leak due to improper sealing of the filter to the engine.
(11-05-2016, 05:44 AM)dsinned_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Any oil residue collecting on the bottom of your engine coming from the oil filter? It is possibly you left the old filter's gasket in the filter housing's sealing groove and screwed on a new filter with its own gasket on the mating surface resulting in TWO O-rings "stacked" instead of one. This will generally result in an inadvertant slow oil leak due to improper sealing of the filter to the engine.
That has happened more than once!
(11-05-2016, 05:44 AM)dsinned_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Any oil residue collecting on the bottom of your engine coming from the oil filter? It is possibly you left the old filter's gasket in the filter housing's sealing groove and screwed on a new filter with its own gasket on the mating surface resulting in TWO O-rings "stacked" instead of one. This will generally result in an inadvertant slow oil leak due to improper sealing of the filter to the engine.
No, but thank you for the suggestion.
For clarification: Honda states that our bikes require 4.1 U.S. quarts after an oil and filter change. I purchase 5 quarts when I change my oil, and add exactly 4 quarts when I change the oil and filter. I let the oil drain a minimum of one hour (usually 2+ hrs while I'm off doing something else). I add 4 quarts after an oil and filter change, and this always over-fills my bike slightly - after performing the Honda-recommended inspection process the oil is always slightly above the upper line in the sight glass, but I just leave it. I check my oil level every several hundred miles, and add as required to bring the level up to the top line. I perform oil and filter changes every 3,000 miles. However, when I reached 2,900 miles this time my oil level was at the bottom of the two lines in the sight glass, and I had completely used up the fifth quart of oil I purchased prior to performing the last oil change by topping-off the level as required during inspections. I don't see or smell any oil burning, so my only thoughts are this bike is either burning oil, or my inspection method is not working. There is absolutely no oil leaking anywhere out of this motorcycle. The next time I do an oil change I will collect, and measure, the amount of oil that drains. Does it really make a difference if I check my oil after the bike has been sitting over-night, or does warming the oil actually make a difference? I believe that if anything, more oil would drain into the crankcase the longer the bike sat without running, potentially causing an incorrect "over-filled" reading at the sight glass. I don't believe the thermal expansion of engine oil is that significant as to make a difference between hot and cold inspections when reading the level in the sight glass - or am I wrong?
4 quarts just underfills my bike if I check it exactly according to procedure. Draining overnight or cold, I stopped doing that. Oil needs to be nice and warm to drain completely. Needs to be warmed to check it, oil expands with temperature. I do check it completely level on front/rear paddock stands which is slightly different than the centerstand.
Ulvetanna, it's probably immaterial, but you would get a slightly different reading checking the bike dead level on paddock stands rather than with the bike on the centre stand, would you not?
(11-08-2016, 03:49 AM)Cormanus_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Ulvetanna, it's probably immaterial, but you would get a slightly different reading checking the bike dead level on paddock stands rather than with the bike on the centre stand, would you not?
Yeah, I don't think just using the rear paddock stand was the same as using the centerstand either, the angle wasn't quite the same. So I took to doing the oil change with the bike essentially level on the front/rear paddock stands which gets me a little more room to work under the bike.
It's gotta be very slightly different but since 4 quarts puts it just under the top mark, that's what I've gotten used to so I use that. I know it's fine because of the volume I put in.
Remember I overfilled the one time? It's really easy to do that. That's really the only thing I am concerned with as far as oil, is overfilling and properly warming the bike for the procedure and for checking the level. Seems to make more difference on this bike. As long as the type of oil used meets the specification called for, and your filter isn't failing and spraying oil all over creation, the rest is up to the owner.
So it's been approximately 500 miles since I changed my oil. Came home from the bike show in Long Beach yesterday and checked it (exactly by the method defined by Honda). It is over-filled now; the sight glass is completely full (after the oil change it was only just barely above the top inspection line). Appears that whatever prevents the oil from completely draining out of the oil cooler into the crankcase is not functioning properly on my bike.
Looking at the Lubrication System Diagram in the service manual, there is nothing that keeps the oil from draining from the cooler to the case.
Except the oil cooler lines are on the top. So unless it siphons out, I don't know how the cooler would empty. I don't know how much oil would be in the lines and passages either.