Has anyone got some experience using the new breed of Lithium Iron batteries in place of Lead Acid ?
On paper they seem to make so much sense but how do they stack up in real world usage ?
I dont' know personally of anyone who has used one. Although on several of the forums some members have. They are lighter weight, won't fit in the battery box without spacers to take up the extra space and require different charging systems other than a Battery Tender Jr. That covers everything I know about them.
I had a Shorai in my ZX12, never had any problems with it.
Not in a motorcycle. Yes in renewable energy systems. These MUST have a battery management system or will be damaged by over or undercharging. They also have a fairly high minimum operating temperature (too high to be practical in winter driven vehicles). Applications requiring cold weather operation have battery heaters. Lithium titanate has better characteristics but cost more (is/ was more cost effective if considering $/kW throughput). I am highly interested in trying one but am leaning towards waiting until this form factor is more proven. I'd probably tinker with one in a camping light before a $10k fuel injected motorcycle....
Shorai says that the Battery Tenders will work with their batteries. Several guys on the Tiger 1050 forum have gone to the Shorai and seem happy with it.
I put a Lithium Iron in my ST1300 and it worked fine with no problems. I couldn't believe how small and light the battery was when I received it.
You can use a battery tender to charge them but you should not leave it connected long term unless the battery tender is specifically made for Lithium Iron batteries.
(10-03-2014, 12:24 PM)RDE3036_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I put a Lithium Iron in my ST1300 and it worked fine with no problems. I couldn't believe how small and light the battery was when I received it.
You can use a battery tender to charge them but you should not leave it connected long term unless the battery tender is specifically made for Lithium Iron batteries.
Thanks for all the feedback. The next time I need to replace a battery, where the battery is easy to get to, I will probably give one of these a try.
I have a Shorai in my CBR. Have had it for two years or so. Works great and you can charge it just fine with a lead-acid battery charger as long as it is one that senses peak voltage and stops (almost any charger made in the past decade or two should have this function). I have quick-charged it as well, and it still works great. I have cycled it, as well. One day, I'll get a cell balancer, but so far I haven't had any problems, so that's still out on the horizon somewhere. Some brands of Lithium-Iron batteries have the cell balancer built into the battery pack, which is a nice convenience.
(10-03-2014, 11:12 AM)Dakota_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Not in a motorcycle. Yes in renewable energy systems. These MUST have a battery management system or will be damaged by over or undercharging. They also have a fairly high minimum operating temperature (too high to be practical in winter driven vehicles). Applications requiring cold weather operation have battery heaters. Lithium titanate has better characteristics but cost more (is/ was more cost effective if considering $/kW throughput). I am highly interested in trying one but am leaning towards waiting until this form factor is more proven. I'd probably tinker with one in a camping light before a $10k fuel injected motorcycle....
These batteries have been around for about a decade in motorsports applications and have worked extremely well for that purpose due to the operating envelope of a motorcycle (most people do not ride near/below 32*F). The under-over charging problem can be mitigated by a modern charger rather than the battery pack itself.
(10-07-2014, 01:48 AM)AzBob_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I have a Shorai in my CBR. Have had it for two years or so. Works great and you can charge it just fine with a lead-acid battery charger as long as it is one that senses peak voltage and stops (almost any charger made in the past decade or two should have this function). I have quick-charged it as well, and it still works great. I have cycled it, as well. One day, I'll get a cell balancer, but so far I haven't had any problems, so that's still out on the horizon somewhere. Some brands of Lithium-Iron batteries have the cell balancer built into the battery pack, which is a nice convenience.
(10-03-2014, 11:12 AM)Dakota_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Not in a motorcycle. Yes in renewable energy systems. These MUST have a battery management system or will be damaged by over or undercharging. They also have a fairly high minimum operating temperature (too high to be practical in winter driven vehicles). Applications requiring cold weather operation have battery heaters. Lithium titanate has better characteristics but cost more (is/ was more cost effective if considering $/kW throughput). I am highly interested in trying one but am leaning towards waiting until this form factor is more proven. I'd probably tinker with one in a camping light before a $10k fuel injected motorcycle....
These batteries have been around for about a decade in motorsports applications and have worked extremely well for that purpose due to the operating envelope of a motorcycle (most people do not ride near/below 32*F). The under-over charging problem can be mitigated by a modern charger rather than the battery pack itself.
These batteries have been around for about a decade in motorsports applications and have worked extremely well for that purpose due to the operating envelope of a motorcycle (most people do not ride near/below 32*F). The under-over charging problem can be mitigated by a modern charger rather than the battery pack itself.
The battery must have a management system (BMS) to keep from under or overcharging. It will otherwise be damaged. Don't really understand what you are implying by "modern charger". Most, if not all bikes, are designed around the lead acid battery operating at a constant 14-15V bus maintained by the alternator. This is not directly compatible with a lithium iron phosphate battery unless it has a BMS. Most of these small LiFePho have built in BMS (it is not just a "pack"); sometimes it is a separate chassis. It is REQUIRED by this battery's chemistry.
(10-07-2014, 11:19 AM)Dakota_imp Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2014, 01:48 AM)AzBob_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I have a Shorai in my CBR. Have had it for two years or so. Works great and you can charge it just fine with a lead-acid battery charger as long as it is one that senses peak voltage and stops (almost any charger made in the past decade or two should have this function). I have quick-charged it as well, and it still works great. I have cycled it, as well. One day, I'll get a cell balancer, but so far I haven't had any problems, so that's still out on the horizon somewhere. Some brands of Lithium-Iron batteries have the cell balancer built into the battery pack, which is a nice convenience.
(10-03-2014, 11:12 AM)Dakota_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Not in a motorcycle. Yes in renewable energy systems. These MUST have a battery management system or will be damaged by over or undercharging. They also have a fairly high minimum operating temperature (too high to be practical in winter driven vehicles). Applications requiring cold weather operation have battery heaters. Lithium titanate has better characteristics but cost more (is/ was more cost effective if considering $/kW throughput). I am highly interested in trying one but am leaning towards waiting until this form factor is more proven. I'd probably tinker with one in a camping light before a $10k fuel injected motorcycle....
These batteries have been around for about a decade in motorsports applications and have worked extremely well for that purpose due to the operating envelope of a motorcycle (most people do not ride near/below 32*F). The under-over charging problem can be mitigated by a modern charger rather than the battery pack itself.
These batteries have been around for about a decade in motorsports applications and have worked extremely well for that purpose due to the operating envelope of a motorcycle (most people do not ride near/below 32*F). The under-over charging problem can be mitigated by a modern charger rather than the battery pack itself.
The battery must have a management system (BMS) to keep from under or overcharging. It will otherwise be damaged. Don't really understand what you are implying by "modern charger". Most, if not all bikes, are designed around the lead acid battery operating at a constant 14-15V bus maintained by the alternator. This is not directly compatible with a lithium iron phosphate battery unless it has a BMS. Most of these small LiFePho have built in BMS (it is not just a "pack"); sometimes it is a separate chassis. It is REQUIRED by this battery's chemistry.
I was referring to charging off the bike, as that's the part most people are wondering about, I would think. As you said, the battery has circuitry to disallow over- or under-charging, just like your cell phone battery does. As I mentioned, though, the Shorai battery does NOT have a cell balancer built into the circuitry, as some other brands do, so occasional maintenance may be necessary off-bike to balance the pack. I haven't had any problems with mine, however.