My bike has developed a familiar minor surge/hunting at low throttle openings. I say 'familiar' because I've experienced it on bikes with emissions canisters -- shortly before the canister "falls off." I've generally left the tank vent tube to atmosphere and used a vacuum cap for the line from the throttle bodies. QUESTION: has anyone here removed the canister from a CB1100? Where is the thing? Honda did a good job making it inconspicuous! (I searched the forum and the web before posting -- I apologize if there's a thread on this already, I just couldn't find it!).
DISCLAIMER: I am in no way advocating to modification or removal of any emission control device.
Siggy, that roughness at low throttle settings is probably not related to the cannister. Quite a few folks on the forum have noticed it, including myself. Mine has done it since new. I suspect it's a lean condition, most likely related to emission control. On my bike it's roughest about 1800-2K rpm then disappears above that.
(08-31-2014, 04:20 PM)Flynrider_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Siggy, that roughness at low throttle settings is probably not related to the cannister. Quite a few folks on the forum have noticed it, including myself. Mine has done it since new. I suspect it's a lean condition, most likely related to emission control. On my bike it's roughest about 1800-2K rpm then disappears above that.
I created a post about the fuel injection problems I am experiencing with my 2014 CB1100 here a few months back. I have not kept it up-to-date, but in summary:
1. The throttle bodies on my bike are not synchronized - I posted a picture of the electronic vacuum gauge reading on this forum.
2. My bike has been returned to the dealer four times - the Honda mechanics claim it runs "fine" - it does not.
3. An electronic diagnostics test has been performed by Honda twice - both times the results were satisfactory.
4. Below 3,000 RPM and at very light loads my bike runs poorly - you can hear it mis-firing.
5. From stoplight to stoplight (one block apart) my bike is annoying to ride. My bike has somehow, mysteriously been running better as the miles have increased (3,000 miles now) - but it still does not run acceptably.
6.On the back roads, in corners, where you let the RPM drop below 3,000 is where it is most noticeable - and annoying. The engine stumbles (slightly) as the throttle is applied below 3,000 RPM, then suddenly comes to life above 3,000 RPM (actually closer to 3,200 RPM).
7. After four visits to the dealer, multiple phone calls to the factory and a threat to invoke the California Lemmon Law, Honda is arranging to have a "factory representative" present when Honda can perform their own vacuum test.
8. I love my bike, and if Honda cannot / does not repair it to my satisfaction then I will repair it myself - contrary to common belief the throttle bodies can be adjusted. I am convinced that synchronizing the throttle bodies on my bike will improve its performance (I have years of experience synchronizing carburetors on 4-cylinder bikes).
Dave,
I believe you meant to say CANNOT be adjusted. I don't know, and think someone like you may be able to do it. It is just that the service manual says not to adjust the screws or it can't be put back. I would imagine that is more for people like me, with no experience syncing carbs or throttle bodies.
I figured they are set at the factory on some kind of flow bench, but I don't know.
Having owned approx 10 BMW motorcycles, I am very familiar with the Booster Plug product. I installed one on a couple of bikes and it works. I believe they are only made for BMW, Triumph, Husqvarna and maybe Ducati. But this seems to be what would solve the problem you are describing, if it's ever available for Hondas.
For those that aren't familiar with it, It's a simple plug and play module that eliminates surging and hunting due to lean factory settings. It does this in a very simple way. It tricks the engine management into thinking the outside temperature is 20 deg. F lower than it actually is. The fuel management then automatically compensates for this by making the fuel setting six percent richer. That's it.
(09-01-2014, 02:17 AM)Lord Popgun_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Dave,
I believe you meant to say CANNOT be adjusted. I don't know, and think someone like you may be able to do it. It is just that the service manual says not to adjust the screws or it can't be put back. I would imagine that is more for people like me, with no experience syncing carbs or throttle bodies.
I figured they are set at the factory on some kind of flow bench, but I don't know.
popgun,
Some people believe that they CANNOT be adjusted (I received such a response in my previous post, a few months back, with a reference to the service manual). I stated that CONTRARY to popular believe they CAN be adjusted. I own and read through the official Honda service manual, where they warn you NOT to adjust the throttle body synchronization (it's kinda like those little tags that they sew on your pillow that tell you not to remove under penalty of law). Honda also informed me that they CANNOT be adjusted, and this is when I informed them that if they CANNOT be adjusted then I would like mine replaced (they did not have a response to this statement). Honda had been refusing to even check the synchronization on my bike (they said they didn't know how to do it), but at lease now they have agreed to do so. I am not 100% sure that they can be adjusted, but the service manual shows screws that they warn you not to mess with because to do so will affect the synchronization. I just figured that if I messed with these screws (with the help of a vacuum gauge) that I could just possibly make an improvement. If it was this simple I would have done this by now, and this is why I have been keeping the pressure on Honda to do something for me. Other bikes (my 1998 Honda VFR800) allow you to synchronize the throttle bodies; why would the CB1100 be different? You are probably right, concerning the throttle bodies being adjusted on a flow bench at the factory, but however they are adjusted, mine are not adjusted properly. I have a really, really good feeling that if the throttle bodies on my bike are properly synchronized then the stumbling and mis-firing below 3,000 RPM will be eliminated, or at least reduced to a more acceptable level. I'm not the only one on this forum who has made comments about their bike performing poorly at low RPM, but I believe that I am the only member on this forum who has actually hooked a vacuum gauge up to their bike and made an accurate measurement. If it wasn't for the vacuum test that I had performed by an independent mechanic, then I would most-likely believe that my bike ran the way it did because of leanness due to the emissions standards.
(09-01-2014, 02:17 AM)Lord Popgun_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Dave,
I believe you meant to say CANNOT be adjusted. I don't know, and think someone like you may be able to do it. It is just that the service manual says not to adjust the screws or it can't be put back. I would imagine that is more for people like me, with no experience syncing carbs or throttle bodies.
I figured they are set at the factory on some kind of flow bench, but I don't know.
popgun,
Some people believe that they CANNOT be adjusted (I received such a response in my previous post, a few months back, with a reference to the service manual). I stated that CONTRARY to popular believe they CAN be adjusted. I own and read through the official Honda service manual, where they warn you NOT to adjust the throttle body synchronization (it's kinda like those little tags that they sew on your pillow that tell you not to remove under penalty of law). Honda also informed me that they CANNOT be adjusted, and this is when I informed them that if they CANNOT be adjusted then I would like mine replaced (they did not have a response to this statement). Honda had been refusing to even check the synchronization on my bike (they said they didn't know how to do it), but at lease now they have agreed to do so. I am not 100% sure that they can be adjusted, but the service manual shows screws that they warn you not to mess with because to do so will affect the synchronization. I just figured that if I messed with these screws (with the help of a vacuum gauge) that I could just possibly make an improvement. If it was this simple I would have done this by now, and this is why I have been keeping the pressure on Honda to do something for me. Other bikes (my 1998 Honda VFR800) allow you to synchronize the throttle bodies; why would the CB1100 be different? You are probably right, concerning the throttle bodies being adjusted on a flow bench at the factory, but however they are adjusted, mine are not adjusted properly. I have a really, really good feeling that if the throttle bodies on my bike are properly synchronized then the stumbling and mis-firing below 3,000 RPM will be eliminated, or at least reduced to a more acceptable level. I'm not the only one on this forum who has made comments about their bike performing poorly at low RPM, but I believe that I am the only member on this forum who has actually hooked a vacuum gauge up to their bike and made an accurate measurement. If it wasn't for the vacuum test that I had performed by an independent mechanic, then I would most-likely believe that my bike ran the way it did because of leanness due to the emissions standards.
Dave,
How does the TPS play with throttle body sync? The book says not to mess with that either, and it isn't even avail. as a separate item. I do know that a couple members have adjusted theirs. though.
Also, you said it is misfiring. Wouldn't that indicate that maybe something is wrong in the ingnition or maybe the ECU? I'm not a motorcycle mechanic, just trying to learn
Now that you guys have described this, I believe my 13 CB does it also.
I think adding the PCV helped by richening the fuel level.
Maybe when Guhl Motors gets my bike on the Dyno later this week he'll notice something that can be tweaked in the ECU or who knows if he even tweaks or measures EFI as mentioned.