The CB1100 Community Forum

(04-28-2018, 10:31 AM)NightRider_imp Wrote: [ -> ]That's not the question. The question is why you choose to insult most of your fellow forum members and their beloved rides as if the 14 STD model is somehow less of a bike because it is targeted toward a different buyer than yourself.

That buyer is one who likes to save money and/or enjoys the pearl black finish and mags and the slim, and in the opinion of most, the best looking tank on any bike. The same buyer who likes mounting and dismounting on the side without the hot pipe, duh, and enjoys the look of a bike that follows the tradition born of the 750F.

Slim and lighter and faster and does not care that beautiful tank holds less gas and even loves that it makes it slimmer than the red bikes. The DLX with a beautiful and less slim tank and hot pipes on both sides, that's okay because it is beautiful also, just in different ways and that's okay too.

Okay in my rear view mirror.

I didn't insult anybody. I stated facts. The Deluxe clearly has more content than the Standard, which is why the Deluxe costed more and was more popular, despite its higher price tag.

Quote:That buyer is one who likes to save money
So when you say it, it's not insulting to Standard buyers, but when I say the exact same thing, it's insulting to them?

Alrighty then.

Quote:and/or enjoys the pearl black finish and mags and the slim, and in the opinion of most, the best looking tank on any bike.
Actually, no. The seamless, contoured tank with the brilliant paintwork on the '17 is almost universally regarded among non-owners as being better-looking than the tank on the previous models.

Quote:The same buyer who likes mounting and dismounting on the side without the hot pipe, duh, and enjoys the look of a bike that follows the tradition born of the 750F.
Which the red '13 also had, and which sold a lot better than the '14 Standard.

Quote:Slim and lighter and faster and does not care that beautiful tank holds less gas and even loves that it makes it slimmer than the red bikes. The DLX with a beautiful and less slim tank and hot pipes on both sides, that's okay because it is beautiful also, just in different ways and that's okay too.
The '13 and '14 Standard tanks are no slimmer than the Deluxe tank. The extra capacity makes the Deluxe's tank taller, but no wider. The '17's tank is also just as slim as the '14's.

The '14 also is not faster than the '17, which makes a bit more power than the '14 Standard to offset the additional ten lbs, and, more importantly, handles significantly better as a result of its updated chassis and suspension. In the real world, superior handling equates to greater speed.

(04-28-2018, 12:54 PM)VLJ_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2018, 10:31 AM)NightRider_imp Wrote: [ -> ]That's not the question. The question is why you choose to insult most of your fellow forum members and their beloved rides as if the 14 STD model is somehow less of a bike because it is targeted toward a different buyer than yourself.

That buyer is one who likes to save money and/or enjoys the pearl black finish and mags and the slim, and in the opinion of most, the best looking tank on any bike. The same buyer who likes mounting and dismounting on the side without the hot pipe, duh, and enjoys the look of a bike that follows the tradition born of the 750F.

Slim and lighter and faster and does not care that beautiful tank holds less gas and even loves that it makes it slimmer than the red bikes. The DLX with a beautiful and less slim tank and hot pipes on both sides, that's okay because it is beautiful also, just in different ways and that's okay too.

Okay in my rear view mirror.

I didn't insult anybody. I stated facts. The Deluxe clearly has more content than the Standard, which is why the Deluxe costed more and was more popular, despite its higher price tag.

Quote:That buyer is one who likes to save money
So when you say it, it's not insulting to Standard buyers, but when I say the exact same thing, it's insulting to them?

Alrighty then.

Quote:and/or enjoys the pearl black finish and mags and the slim, and in the opinion of most, the best looking tank on any bike.
Actually, no. The seamless, contoured tank with the brilliant paintwork on the '17 is almost universally regarded among non-owners as being better-looking than the tank on the previous models.

Quote:The same buyer who likes mounting and dismounting on the side without the hot pipe, duh, and enjoys the look of a bike that follows the tradition born of the 750F.
Which the red '13 also had, and which sold a lot better than the '14 Standard.

Quote:Slim and lighter and faster and does not care that beautiful tank holds less gas and even loves that it makes it slimmer than the red bikes. The DLX with a beautiful and less slim tank and hot pipes on both sides, that's okay because it is beautiful also, just in different ways and that's okay too.
The '13 and '14 Standard tanks are no slimmer than the Deluxe tank. The extra capacity makes the Deluxe's tank taller, but no wider. The '17's tank is also just as slim as the '14's.

The '14 also is not faster than the '17, which makes a bit more power than the '14 Standard to offset the additional ten lbs, and, more importantly, handles significantly better as a result of its updated chassis and suspension. In the real world, superior handling equates to greater speed.

and

(04-28-2018, 12:54 PM)VLJ_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2018, 10:31 AM)NightRider_imp Wrote: [ -> ]That's not the question. The question is why you choose to insult most of your fellow forum members and their beloved rides as if the 14 STD model is somehow less of a bike because it is targeted toward a different buyer than yourself.

That buyer is one who likes to save money and/or enjoys the pearl black finish and mags and the slim, and in the opinion of most, the best looking tank on any bike. The same buyer who likes mounting and dismounting on the side without the hot pipe, duh, and enjoys the look of a bike that follows the tradition born of the 750F.

Slim and lighter and faster and does not care that beautiful tank holds less gas and even loves that it makes it slimmer than the red bikes. The DLX with a beautiful and less slim tank and hot pipes on both sides, that's okay because it is beautiful also, just in different ways and that's okay too.

Okay in my rear view mirror.

I didn't insult anybody. I stated facts. The Deluxe clearly has more content than the Standard, which is why the Deluxe costed more and was more popular, despite its higher price tag.

Quote:That buyer is one who likes to save money
So when you say it, it's not insulting to Standard buyers, but when I say the exact same thing, it's insulting to them?

Alrighty then.

Quote:and/or enjoys the pearl black finish and mags and the slim, and in the opinion of most, the best looking tank on any bike.
Actually, no. The seamless, contoured tank with the brilliant paintwork on the '17 is almost universally regarded among non-owners as being better-looking than the tank on the previous models.

Quote:The same buyer who likes mounting and dismounting on the side without the hot pipe, duh, and enjoys the look of a bike that follows the tradition born of the 750F.
Which the red '13 also had, and which sold a lot better than the '14 Standard.

Quote:Slim and lighter and faster and does not care that beautiful tank holds less gas and even loves that it makes it slimmer than the red bikes. The DLX with a beautiful and less slim tank and hot pipes on both sides, that's okay because it is beautiful also, just in different ways and that's okay too.
The '13 and '14 Standard tanks are no slimmer than the Deluxe tank. The extra capacity makes the Deluxe's tank taller, but no wider. The '17's tank is also just as slim as the '14's.

The '14 also is not faster than the '17, which makes a bit more power than the '14 Standard to offset the additional ten lbs, and, more importantly, handles significantly better as a result of its updated chassis and suspension. In the real world, superior handling equates to greater speed.

VLJ, I think many people have the perception that the DLX was more popular than the Standard, but I'll insist that we simply don't know without import numbers for '14, as I mentioned before in this thread. Same problem to compare '13 with '14 Standard. It could be the case that twice as many Stardards were imported than the DLX model--therefore, leftover '14 Standards. I'd really love to know, I like marketing strategies--I may be wrong, but the "blacked-out" look was really coming on strong after 2010 and I thought the '14 Standard was Honda's answer for that.

EDIT: After searching a bit, I found:[url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=7582&pid=116274#pid116274]this post from Cormanus, back in 2015:

RE: Total Sales Numbers
Apropos numbers manufactured, you could hazard a guess for the US market based on the US data in the Registry.

The highest VIN for a 2013 is 1785—so round it up to 1800; for the 2013 ABS it's 1069—say 1100; for the 2014 STD it's 2460—say 2500; and for the DLX it's 299—say 300.

That would mean 2900 bikes in 2013 and 2800 in 2014 just in the US.

If those numbers are correct--around 300 DLX imported to the U.S. versus some 2500 Standards--would that change things a bit? To me that explains why DLX are/were more in demand, but not that they sold better.

(04-28-2018, 12:54 PM)VLJ_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2018, 10:31 AM)NightRider_imp Wrote: [ -> ]That's not the question. The question is why you choose to insult most of your fellow forum members and their beloved rides as if the 14 STD model is somehow less of a bike because it is targeted toward a different buyer than yourself.

That buyer is one who likes to save money and/or enjoys the pearl black finish and mags and the slim, and in the opinion of most, the best looking tank on any bike. The same buyer who likes mounting and dismounting on the side without the hot pipe, duh, and enjoys the look of a bike that follows the tradition born of the 750F.

Slim and lighter and faster and does not care that beautiful tank holds less gas and even loves that it makes it slimmer than the red bikes. The DLX with a beautiful and less slim tank and hot pipes on both sides, that's okay because it is beautiful also, just in different ways and that's okay too.

Okay in my rear view mirror.

I didn't insult anybody. I stated facts. The Deluxe clearly has more content than the Standard, which is why the Deluxe costed more and was more popular, despite its higher price tag.

Quote:That buyer is one who likes to save money
So when you say it, it's not insulting to Standard buyers, but when I say the exact same thing, it's insulting to them?

Alrighty then.

Quote:and/or enjoys the pearl black finish and mags and the slim, and in the opinion of most, the best looking tank on any bike.
Actually, no. The seamless, contoured tank with the brilliant paintwork on the '17 is almost universally regarded among non-owners as being better-looking than the tank on the previous models.

Quote:The same buyer who likes mounting and dismounting on the side without the hot pipe, duh, and enjoys the look of a bike that follows the tradition born of the 750F.
Which the red '13 also had, and which sold a lot better than the '14 Standard.

Quote:Slim and lighter and faster and does not care that beautiful tank holds less gas and even loves that it makes it slimmer than the red bikes. The DLX with a beautiful and less slim tank and hot pipes on both sides, that's okay because it is beautiful also, just in different ways and that's okay too.
The '13 and '14 Standard tanks are no slimmer than the Deluxe tank. The extra capacity makes the Deluxe's tank taller, but no wider. The '17's tank is also just as slim as the '14's.

The '14 also is not faster than the '17, which makes a bit more power than the '14 Standard to offset the additional ten lbs, and, more importantly, handles significantly better as a result of its updated chassis and suspension. In the real world, superior handling equates to greater speed.

RE: "almost universally regarded among non-owners"

I have to ask: on what basis do you make this claim? Personal conversations with non-CB1100 owners? A number of magazine articles and/or video reviewers that state that the '17 tank is better looking? The language you use feels (to me as I read) like dozens and dozens of non-CB1100 owners were asked. My brother (a non-CB1100 owner, poor thing) saw both my '14 Standard and the '17 EX I bought. His first question was "so do you like the new tank better?", his tone of voice made it clear he did not.

I know you personally have stated that all CB1100 tanks are "[url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=12322&pid=200709#pid200709]undeniably beautiful".

I started that poll. Of 55 members who voted (probably owners), 29% said they loved it. 12.7% said they hated it. Over 58% said either they weren't sure or that the '17 tank would grown on them. I see those numbers and note that about 71% of members here did not select "love it". I could use these numbers and consider your statement to say the following: "wow, 71% of CB1100 owners do not love the '17 tank (ownership bias?), yet non-CB1100 owners universally prefer the '17 tank. Strange!!"

Conclusion? non-CB1100 owners are wrong!...or pre-17 CB1100 owners are blinded by bias! ... or... ???

"...There isn't a bad design or paint scheme in the bunch. Really, this is akin to debating a preference for blondes, brunettes, or redheads? Sure, they're all different, but you can't go wrong with any of them". I think this is the comment we likely all agree on.

pdedse, that's why I specified "non-owners." Our opinions here mean nothing. We're all biased. Non-owners have no reason to be biased, and, yes, nearly every last review of the '17 includes something about the improved look of the seamless tank.

That's not to say that the other two tanks aren't fantastic, because they are. And, for the record, I LOVE the black tank with the red pinstripe on the '14 Standard. Eric can vouch for how much I gushed over the look of his bike, especially the tank. In fact, I like the look of the black enough that I nearly bought Eric's bike brand new, except he beat me to the punch.

I'd be lying, though, if I said that I was going to buy it over the '17 for any reason other than the killer price. That was it. I was willing to take a pass on the bike I really wanted, the '17, only because the price for the '14 was going to be too low to pass up. Otherwise, seeing them parked side by side, there was no way I would have chosen the '14 Standard over the '17 EX if they had been the same price. The '17 just has too many gorgeous additional details, never mind the additions of ABS, a larger tank, a cooler exhaust sound, and much better suspension.

pdedse, if you haven’t, check out [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=12498&pid=203074#pid203074]this post.

Also check out the [url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HIcu1VqrkE_EjkZz6v9y2V-9ka2tpZMUyCcpJGWrAF8/htmlview#]statistics page on our humble registry.

Just sticking to the US, there are more 2013s than 2014s, including DLXs and Standards. There are more 2014 Standards than DLXs, although that may be because there appear to be a lot more made. There are very few 2017s, although it may be argued to be early days yet.

I reckon the number of 2014 Standards imported to the US was more than double the number of DLXs, although I’ve no hard evidence. Hence the seemingly endless supply of new 2014s at knock down prices.

VLJ, I’m interested in the basis of your claim that the 2017 makes more power than the 2014. Honda’s information to the US government is that the 2014 makes 88.5 BHP and the 2017 88.0. I suspect they are, in fact, identical.

(04-28-2018, 03:38 PM)Cormanus_imp Wrote: [ -> ]pdedse, if you haven’t, check out [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=12498&pid=203074#pid203074]this post.

Also check out the [url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HIcu1VqrkE_EjkZz6v9y2V-9ka2tpZMUyCcpJGWrAF8/htmlview#]statistics page on our humble registry.

Just sticking to the US, there are more 2013s than 2014s, including DLXs and Standards. There are more 2014 Standards than DLXs, although that may be because there appear to be a lot more made. There are very few 2017s, although it may be argued to be early days yet.

I reckon the number of 2014 Standards imported to the US was more than double the number of DLXs, although I’ve no hard evidence. Hence the seemingly endless supply of new 2014s at knock down prices.

VLJ, I’m interested in the basis of your claim that the 2017 makes more power than the 2014. Honda’s information to the US government is that the 2014 makes 88.5 BHP and the 2017 88.0. I suspect they are, in fact, identical.

That's funny, I just edited my previous post with that info while you were posting this...crazy!

(04-28-2018, 03:37 PM)VLJ_imp Wrote: [ -> ]pdedse, that's why I specified "non-owners." Our opinions here mean nothing. We're all biased. Non-owners have no reason to be biased, and, yes, nearly every last review of the '17 includes something about the improved look of the seamless tank.

That's not to say that the other two tanks aren't fantastic, because they are. And, for the record, I LOVE the black tank with the red pinstripe on the '14 Standard. Eric can vouch for how much I gushed over the look of his bike, especially the tank. In fact, I like the look of the black enough that I nearly bought Eric's bike brand new, except he beat me to the punch.

I'd be lying, though, if I said that I was going to buy it over the '17 for any reason other than the killer price. That was it. I was willing to take a pass on the bike I really wanted, the '17, only because the price for the '14 was going to be too low to pass up. Otherwise, seeing them parked side by side, there was no way I would have chosen the '14 Standard over the '17 EX if they had been the same price. The '17 just has too many gorgeous additional details, never mind the additions of ABS, a larger tank, a cooler exhaust sound, and much better suspension.

I hear 'ya...I had the choice of buying a new '14 for around $6500, a very nice '13 with about 1500 miles on it for around $5500, or the '17 EX at 10k. But I already had owned a '14 and was intrigued enough by the '17 that I went for it, despite not wanting to deal with spokes. My plan is to make this bike last a good 10-15 years. By that time, its tank will be cool beyond description. In my poll I chose "it will grow on me" : )

Cormanus, numerous magazines reported that the '17 dyno'd a couple-few hp stronger than the '14 on top (88 rwhp vs 82-85rwhp for the previous models) and throughout the midrange, which supports Honda's claim of increased power from the new exhaust system. The difference isn't all that significant, obviously, although the difference in sound is significant. Then again, the weight savings of the single-pipe version vs the smaller dual pipes of the '17 also isn't significant, not on a 550-lb tugboat like the CB1100. NightRider talks about the '14 Standard being faster than the '17 due to the '14's slightly lower weight, which is laughable. The average CB1100 rider is so overweight and rides so sedately that a few additional lbs of exhaust weight are entirely irrelevant, and the superior suspension on the '17 more than makes up for the weight difference anyway. Anyone who wants to go sportriding on the CB1100 will go faster on the '17, simply due to its superior handling.

Lots of back and forth on here about different years etc...my 2013 is still the sharpest of the bunch ... and the brakes don’t squeal

Has anyone ever conducted a poll of how overweight the average CB owner is? I take VLJs point that the 2014 standard is not likely any faster or slower than a 2017. Still, I suspect that Nightrider or anyone else could probably be dust me, if they wanted to, and I'm not even overweight. I didn't buy the bike to race it.

To Nightrider's and Cormanus' point: the 2013 standard had a MSRP of $9999, and the 2014 standard was $10399--$400 more. Which is to say, I don't think that by introducing a very limited number of DLX bikes in the states, this means that HONDA considered the 2014 standard now to be the economy or entry-level version. If anything, raising the price over 2013 suggests they anticipated at least the same level of demand. What buyers did or didn't do, and dealers did and didn't do when that demand wasn't there should not be confused with some imaginary new "economy" buyer. I'm with Ferret on this--if the 2014 standard were the only CB1100 the US ever got, I would have bought it and been happy I had the best bike available to me in this country. The fact that other CB models and years with other features some of us may value is a bonus, in terms of our choices. That fact that there were too many 2014s left over and the prices were slashed is a bonus, in terms of choice and value. I don't know why that would be perceived by anyone as a class issue.

Interesting thread. I am a fan of the blacked out look. As an owner of a black 2016 CB1100, I wished Honda had gone all the way with black pipes as well. In fact I am seriously considering this mod but have yet to find an image of a CB1100 with blacked out 4 into 1 headers and exhaust. That being said, I would have bought the bike in any color - well, maybe not pink.

The CB1100 with it’s style and look of a by-gone era that was reminisent to me anyway of a more optimistic and happy time for the working class draws heart- felt smiles everywhere I go. Now, a darker, more pessimistic time calls for the CB1100 to dawn a dark hoody and a snarl in place of it’s naive smile. Not to mention that I have become lazy and do not want to spend my time polishing those chrome headers.

How about this one Mandrau: http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread....#pid200305