Over his career Rossi has basically been the only rider to be able to come from 3 rd or 4 th row to finish first or second. THe guy is gifted.
AS is Marquez only in another way. THe kid never puts himself in a position that he has to come from that far back.
Two of the great ones.
Vinales looked great too.
Poor Lorenzo, he is NOT one of the guys who can come from the back to the front.
(10-22-2016, 11:42 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Over his career Rossi has basically been the only rider to be able to come from 3 rd or 4 th row to finish first or second. THe guy is gifted.
AS is Marquez only in another way. THe kid never puts himself in a position that he has to come from that far back.
Two of the great ones.
Vinales looked great too.
Poor Lorenzo, he is NOT one of the guys who can come from the back to the front.
All true. Rossi continues to show great strength and endurance as a competitor, and just when the announcers begin to imply he may be getting long in the tooth, he'll set a pole position, or the fastest lap or practice time.
I have not checked but at one point in the race he set the fastest lap, faster than Marquez before #93 crashed out. Don't know if anyone bested that time.
Next year, if all goes well, I expect the Yamaha team to be very, very competitive.
Suzuki has the very best chassis on the racetrack but still lacks top speed. Honda has the speed and a good chassis, but it's set up quite "loose" and has to be ridden more like a dirt bike, as Marquez has shown. The Yamahas cannot be horsed around like the Honda or the Suzuki, but they have excellent mid-corner speed and good top end. I think Lorenzo's weakness is his lack of confidence when the bike gets loose; Rossi can cope with this better. Lorenzo needs a very smooth racetrack and a perfect bike setup. He ethereally smooth but in the wet, or on tracks with more technical sections, he's getting left behind. I also strongly believe that the many inexplicable lowsides (actually due to those winglets) spooked Lorenzo and led him to blame the tires for the problem. Rossi was smart to have those things removed from his bike this time around. Lorenzo left those "cowcatchers" in place and we see what the result was.
I don't know what Yamaha has in store for changes next year but if Suzuki finds a little more power and has talent in the paddock both Honda and Yamaha are going to be in for an interesting year.
Wow. Absolutely brilliant posts. I feel like I watched the race. Can't wait until DirecTV installs my dish next week and I get to watch 6 weeks of missed races.
Rossi is one incredible racer. And I forgive him for Sepang (I don't want to open that can of worms - let's just say I'm a big Marquez fan)
(10-23-2016, 03:39 AM)CB4ME_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Wow. Absolutely brilliant posts. I feel like I watched the race. Can't wait until DirecTV installs my dish next week and I get to watch 6 weeks of missed races.
Rossi is one incredible racer. And I forgive him for Sepang (I don't want to open that can of worms - let's just say I'm a big Marquez fan)
It all works out somehow.
Had the race recorded and just finished watching. Major congrats to Crutchlow for a fine race. Rossi always seems at his best when faced with a challenge such as starting from 15th. Rossi did set the fastest lap I believe and he wisely settled for second when he realized the futility of trying to run down Crutchlow. A shame that A, Espargaro crashed out late. Crutchlow mentioned how cautious he became in braking for turn 4 after observing Marquez's crash at same.
(10-22-2016, 11:42 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Over his career Rossi has basically been the only rider to be able to come from 3 rd or 4 th row to finish first or second. THe guy is gifted.
AS is Marquez only in another way. THe kid never puts himself in a position that he has to come from that far back.
Two of the great ones.
Vinales looked great too.
Poor Lorenzo, he is NOT one of the guys who can come from the back to the front.
[url=https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Freddie+Spencer+Daytona+Interceptor+superbike+race&view=detail&mid=653A11E195639FC0A3A2653A11E195639FC0A3A2&FORM=VIRE]Freddie Spencer, Daytona 200, 1985. He had an engine issue and had to pull into the pits early, and dropped back to 49th place. Came all the way back and won it, even with tire changes. He also won the 500cc and 250cc races that weekend.
There have been several riders who have done it.
Rossi is the only one that has consistantly done it year after year. Being a traditionally horrible qualifier the last few years, he has had to work his way thru the pack many times. Which is kind of stunning when you think about the quality of riders that Rossi has done this to.
(10-23-2016, 10:10 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: [ -> ]There have been several riders who have done it.
Rossi is the only one that has consistantly done it year after year. Being a traditionally horrible qualifier the last few years, he has had to work his way thru the pack many times. Which is kind of stunning when you think about the quality of riders that Rossi has done this to.
Freddie's career was over by 1986. Two World Titles in 1985. Too many injuries. He stated at the end of that video that he planned on getting as successful as possible as soon as possible. The more I think about that guy, the more I am in awe of his mind.
He was and is the motorcycle racing equivalent of Martin Eden. Just burn yourself to the ground if you have to in order to get there. Fame and fortune are ephemeral. He's had some rough times but his stature in the business has not faded. Behind the scenes everyone listens to Fast Freddie. And you know those bikes were unbelievably hard on the body and the mind, not like the diesels the boys are riding today (that's Eddie Lawson's term for four-strokes).
Modern equipment and sports medicine has extended the careers of many riders, but none so far as Rossi, who exploited his opportunities brilliantly.
There's no other rider out there I respect like I do VR46, other than Spencer.
(10-23-2016, 05:46 AM)redbirds_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Had the race recorded and just finished watching. Major congrats to Crutchlow for a fine race. Rossi always seems at his best when faced with a challenge such as starting from 15th. Rossi did set the fastest lap I believe and he wisely settled for second when he realized the futility of trying to run down Crutchlow. A shame that A, Espargaro crashed out late. Crutchlow mentioned how cautious he became in braking for turn 4 after observing Marquez's crash at same.
Yes, that Turn 4 is a tough one, easy to get sucked into. I was thinking of this after reading [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=9705&pid=153101#pid153101]N. Ientasch's comments about KR Jr. stating there were certain turns where he never pushed it because the chances of losing the bike were too high.
Truthfully Marquez' crash was quite surprising. He had no reason to push his pace or crash. And he did simply overcook the entry; the announcer tried to make excuses for it by suggesting the tire was cold, but the young man owned up to his mistake and said he just got in too hot, which was obvious just from watching the video.
The man is brash. When at first he didn't get up, I was concerned it might have been worse. The bike, of course, is easily replaced, but if he'd been seriously hurt, HRC's game would have been changed.
This is one area he's got to think through, is risk management. Rossi has got this down to as much of a science as anyone ever has in motorsports. I gotta watch the first few laps again, 'cause a guy over at MCN was also saying Marc crashed pushing to stay ahead of Crutchlow. Seriously?
I did watch the first part of the race again, right up until Marquez crashed.
Now that can only be called a real bonehead mistake, or something more calculated.
Marquez' profile puts him deeper into the category of "stunt rider" than most motorcycle racers. Stuntmen and women are people who are unusually comfortable actually crashing motorcycles, cars, or being flung into space. They LIKE doing those things. They seek opportunities to do them.
There have been a couple of times in my riding career of 35 years where I have had to lay the bike down, choosing that option over what seemed like it would be worse. I got away with it, but I'm not a stunter. I like to keep the bike under control.
I've known some stuntmen and women and they live to stunt. They especially like to do it when other people are watching and when there is some kind of payoff.
Anyone who watched all the races this year knows Marquez ran off the track many times and came back on some of those times to finish the race. He also crashed quite a few times. In 2015 he had 6 DNF's, if memory serves.
This takes me back to Aragon, where Marquez crashed during a practice session in a very similar way to his Turn 4 crash at Philip Island. Inexplicably, he just locked the front brake while the bike was nearly upright. If I recall correctly, he knocked Nicky Hayden down, but at any rate, Marquez, Hayden, and a third rider (I believe it was one of the Espargaro's) all fell. Turns out, an oil flag had been thrown and apparently Marquez' response was to slam on the front brake.
Marc Marquez seems to be pretty comfortable with throwing the bike down the road, and isn't at all afraid to crash. His is a very interesting pyschology, because a competitor who can both win on any given day, and isn't afraid to crash or pass dangerously, can be intimidating. That's how I assess Marc Marquez; he's willing to risk his own neck to scare off competitors. It's a well-known strategy but the risks are very high. Iannone is the same way, he calls himself the "Maniac" and his riding this year matched that moniker.
Getting on back to Sepang, the natural example of all this, I think we just saw an instance of two racers trying to work something out on the track that should have been handled with a handshake. But a handshake is not worth much any more, handshakes don't win races. Fans seem always to prefer winners over nice guys.