The CB1100 Community Forum

(01-28-2018, 03:41 AM)Capo_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-28-2018, 03:05 AM)cookiemech_imp Wrote: [ -> ]No, I wouldn't pay a nickel for that. The journalists are usually beholden in some way to manufacturers and so I don't trust them to be objective; moreover, generally they have some slant in their writing (for example, they really only like sport bikes or Harleys).

I'd much rather get the opinions of people on a forum like this, who tend to be self-selected in their tastes (so pretty much everyone on this site likes CB1100s). And they're not doing it for the money . . .

'The journalists are usually beholden in some way to manufacturers and so I don't trust them to be objective; moreover, generally they have some slant in their writing.' That's a pretty broad brush statement. And patently false, but regardless, if you're saying you don't want opinion, POV, or perspectives, then, yes, you are not a likely customer for any form of journalism, other than perhaps spec sheets and pictures. And yes, the feedback loop of a model- specific forum can be comforting.

I'm going to continue to prod this, as we are at a serious inflection point in media. Nobody seems to want to pay for anything, everyone apparently wants precisely what they want, and nothing else, and nobody trusts anyone unless they agree with an already formed point of view. A la Carte but free. Not sure if anything moving forward will satisfy that. But yet, we do all want to have access to professional content of some sort.

I couldn't have said it any better. Of course I'm sure that no one is surprised by this, lol. I always find it interesting that so many people feel that their services are worth more (where's my raise?, etc.) yet also feel that others should give away their time for free. There not nearly enough empathy in this world.

I don't want anyone to give away his time for free. I was willing for many, many years to pay subscriptions to quite a few (maybe 8 or 10) car and motorcycle magazines. But there was less and less content. Not gonna pay for that.

And the amount I have to pay for internet access and a smartphone plan is ridiculous, considering that any site I view is polluted with ads. I couldn't care less if all the motorcycle magazines went belly up. YouTube videos provide tons of product information, and I'm pretty sure I'll never have to pay to see Matt Laidlaw testing all the new Harley-Davidsons that his family sells in southern California. I don't have to wonder what his motivations are; he wants to sell bikes. But he makes great videos.

Clearly I am not alone in not having any intentions of paying for content on the Web. If I should see real value to me, perhaps I could be persuaded. Value used to exist when there was a nice, thick, color magazine every month in my mailbox.

I am certainly willing (by evidence of the subscriptions I have had since the 70's paying every year) to pay for my subscriptions.I have every issue printed of some of the mags. My wife wants me to give them to someone. She's tired of looking at the stacks. I do think they used to do more thorough reviews of the bikes years ago, but I can sympathize with the hit the high points and get on to the next piece editors must push for.

I love the printed word. I don't read any magazines on line. I want to hold paper in my hand. I'm a dinosaur in that regard. Also a voracious reader. I can digest the contents of a magazine, every article, including all the ads in a single evening. I don't like the thought of going from 12 issues to 4 for the same content (and you know it will be less content) spread out 3 months apart. But hey, have to keep the doors open. I will see how it goes.

Heck for 23 years I wrote for hunting magazines. Sold my first article in 1990. My last maybe 5 years ago. Was an associate editor for Primitive Archer magazine for 15 years maybe? I know the electronic media is now eating into print sales big time. Not enough young people want the "burden" of magazines.

Newspapers too. I've witnessed the demise of the Rocky Mountain News, which had been in print for over 100 years. The Denver Post, which was at one time as substantial and widely circulated as the San Francisco Chronical or LA Times, is but a shell of its former self, in a narrow six column format and with more furniture and car ads than news content. Kinda sad. And who gets the Sunday paper anymore?

(01-28-2018, 02:27 AM)Capo_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Would everyone who is cancelling their subscriptions to the very publications that cover (perhaps imperfectly) their most cherished passion, motorcycles, be willing to pay per article for the work of journalists that is currently published for free on digital platforms? Are you really saying that, even at 4 or 6 issues per year, you’re not willing to pay $10 or so a year for them? Is there an alternate model that would make you happy? Just asking for some friends.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Capo, I was pretty early into networking computers (early 1990's) and thus early into the Internet motorcycle magazine game. I stayed very involved for about five years and was asked to start the first website for one of the big three national magazines, but by that time, it was too late. Had they asked me to do it a few years earlier (which I suggested), I'd have jumped at the chance, as the salary was quite generous. But by the early 2000s, with the advent of myspace and so on, the Internet had become saturated with everyone's junk. Even mediocre journalism was non-existent. I knew for a fact these magazines, and their johnny-come-lately, half-baked websites, were doomed.

And they were. Sport Rider, Cycle World, soon Motorcyclist, and so on. Rider has a heritage from which to draw and stuck to the classic design. But there is only room for one book in that genre, and Rider is it.

I was once told that my approach to journalism was very similar to [url=http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/detail.aspx?RacerID=379]Cook Nielson's, and I am sure it is obvious I took that as a huge compliment.

But no one gives a rat about Cook Nielsen, or decent journalism, any longer. The lesser lights of the pseudo-journalism world (please read Lance Oliver's column on Common Tread, "[url=https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-motorcycle-journalism-isnt-journalism]Why Motorcycle Journalism Isn't Journalism" where he comes right out and admits there is nothing resembling real journalism on that site) are people who I personally watched become so entranced with their own egos and imagined stature in the industry that they flushed it all away. The baby is about to be thrown out with the bath water. I have been moved to a hiatus and reset from even this modest website because of a highly-variable signal/noise ratio, and have only returned out of pure cussedness. So I would hope one can see that professionals completely avoid motorcycles, and move into the automotive side of things, where the real money is.

You are in that game, right? You recall [url=http://www.motorpressguild.org/remembering-friend-founding-mpg-board-member-eric-dahlquist/]Eric Dahlquist? I knew him when I was in the Motor Press Guild. A very good man; he took me aside and gave me some excellent advice. We need more like him. Like Dan Gurney, he recently passed away. Yes, I knew Dan Gurney, too. And many others of the golden age of motorsports who have left us. It's a legacy really impossible to duplicate but there are some lessons there. I am INCREDIBLY fortunate to have learned so much from men like those. Another great guy who reached out to me was [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Considine]Tim Considine, who has a surname synonymous with great writing for decades. These guys offered to help me because, believe it or not, I humbled myself and made it clear I was willing to learn something. That guy was so modest, so humble himself (and he was a TV star with a huge family name) that I couldn't help but just shut up and listen.

The management at the aforementioned failed paper publications rested on its very dubious laurels and did nothing, paid no attention, and have suffered the consequences. I can clearly recall being mocked some 20 years ago for being an "Internet writer" (surprise, surprise, right, guys?) but I knew what was coming. And here we are, and there they are, out of work and pretty much unemployable.

Some may have noticed I infrequently quote or mention Jack London, one of the greatest of all journalists and writers. That's the kind of quality we need to restore motorcycle journalism.

Jack always personally did the things he wrote about. Did he ride a motorcycle? No, but he was an avid bicyclist, circa 1900, and would ride 80 miles each way to visit his girlfriend on weekends, 160 miles in 24 hours. And on the bicycles they had then, that was beyond grueling (I did a 110-mile day once and it knocked me flat for about a week).

He could write about sailing and world travel because he did it; more than that, he broke new ground. He nearly died in the Yukon as part of the Gold Rush in 1897. He spent two years sailing with a tiny crew on a 42' ketch all over the Pacific. And so on.

We need writers who shut up about how fast they are on the latest superbike, or what to have for dinner when on a tour, or what is the hippest gadget for one's idiotic digital entertainment center. We need writers who will "[url=https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/09/21/inspiration-club/]go after inspiration with a club" if necessary, and "[url=https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2851-i-would-rather-be-ashes-than-dust-i-would-rather]would rather be ashes than dust."

There are other examples of great journalists: Charles Lindbergh, Ernie Pyle, Walter Cronkite...

But these days any orifice with a computer can create a website and write anything, and if it sounds right, many will figure it's right, and anyway, it's free.

The issue (pun intended) is that few people know anything about motorcycles. They have become a lifestyle choice. Most people who ride these days have no idea whether their bikes are liquid or air/oil-cooled. They have no idea how to remove a wheel, or adjust a chain or cables, or do anything useful.

Motorcycles used to be, of necessity, hands-on vehicles. That was part of the attraction. No longer so.

Thus, the business model for the TYPE of journalism has changed.

The OLD GUARD who have recently failed were still going by the "I'm faster than you and I am going to tell you all about it" along with the "I got to go to Spain and test ride Yamaha's newest superbike, and I'm gonna tell you all about it. And I'm gonna amuse you with my cute, clever antics and maybe how drunk we all got at the hotel the night before."

The great men of motorsports journalism whom I've mentioned earlier, I mention to emphasize the lessons they can bring, and the great things they gave us in the past. I AM HONORED to have known them.

To your query: I know what business model would work and it involves having a respect for, and clear appreciation of, what Millennials think about and how they see the world.

However I am retired and not the least bit interested in that game, which, BTW, is extremely political when you get to the level of the MIC, AMA, and FIM. And that level kicks in the instant one publishes his first word.

You had better tell your friends to keep their day jobs, because unless they possess a keen sense of adventure, have an unusually well-developed ability to turn a phrase and find humor, irony, insight, and above all, HUMANITY in their written work -- along with a good grasp of the technical aspects of motorcycling today (and the relationship between digital and analogy technologies), they will fail.

(01-28-2018, 07:55 AM)Ulvetanna_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-28-2018, 02:27 AM)Capo_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Would everyone who is cancelling their subscriptions to the very publications that cover (perhaps imperfectly) their most cherished passion, motorcycles, be willing to pay per article for the work of journalists that is currently published for free on digital platforms? Are you really saying that, even at 4 or 6 issues per year, you’re not willing to pay $10 or so a year for them? Is there an alternate model that would make you happy? Just asking for some friends.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Capo, I was pretty early into networking computers (early 1990's) and thus early into the Internet motorcycle magazine game. I stayed very involved for about five years and was asked to start the first website for one of the big three national magazines, but by that time, it was too late. Had they asked me to do it a few years earlier (which I suggested), I'd have jumped at the chance, as the salary was quite generous. But by the early 2000s, with the advent of myspace and so on, the Internet had become saturated with everyone's junk. Even mediocre journalism was non-existent. I knew for a fact these magazines, and their johnny-come-lately, half-baked websites, were doomed.

And they were. Sport Rider, Cycle World, soon Motorcyclist, and so on. Rider has a heritage from which to draw and stuck to the classic design. But there is only room for one book in that genre, and Rider is it.

I was once told that my approach to journalism was very similar to [url=http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/detail.aspx?RacerID=379]Cook Nielson's, and I am sure it is obvious I took that as a huge compliment.

But no one gives a rat about Cook Nielsen, or decent journalism, any longer. The lesser lights of the pseudo-journalism world (please read Lance Oliver's column on Common Tread, "[url=https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-motorcycle-journalism-isnt-journalism]Why Motorcycle Journalism Isn't Journalism" where he comes right out and admits there is nothing resembling real journalism on that site) are people who I personally watched become so entranced with their own egos and imagined stature in the industry that they flushed it all away. The baby is about to be thrown out with the bath water. I have been moved to a hiatus and reset from even this modest website because of a highly-variable signal/noise ratio, and have only returned out of pure cussedness. So I would hope one can see that professionals completely avoid motorcycles, and move into the automotive side of things, where the real money is.

You are in that game, right? You recall [url=http://www.motorpressguild.org/remembering-friend-founding-mpg-board-member-eric-dahlquist/]Eric Dahlquist? I knew him when I was in the Motor Press Guild. A very good man; he took me aside and gave me some excellent advice. We need more like him. Like Dan Gurney, he recently passed away. Yes, I knew Dan Gurney, too. And many others of the golden age of motorsports who have left us. It's a legacy really impossible to duplicate but there are some lessons there. I am INCREDIBLY fortunate to have learned so much from men like those. Another great guy who reached out to me was [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Considine]Tim Considine, who has a surname synonymous with great writing for decades. These guys offered to help me because, believe it or not, I humbled myself and made it clear I was willing to learn something. That guy was so modest, so humble himself (and he was a TV star with a huge family name) that I couldn't help but just shut up and listen.

The management at the aforementioned failed paper publications rested on its very dubious laurels and did nothing, paid no attention, and have suffered the consequences. I can clearly recall being mocked some 20 years ago for being an "Internet writer" (surprise, surprise, right, guys?) but I knew what was coming. And here we are, and there they are, out of work and pretty much unemployable.

Some may have noticed I infrequently quote or mention Jack London, one of the greatest of all journalists and writers. That's the kind of quality we need to restore motorcycle journalism.

Jack always personally did the things he wrote about. Did he ride a motorcycle? No, but he was an avid bicyclist, circa 1900, and would ride 80 miles each way to visit his girlfriend on weekends, 160 miles in 24 hours. And on the bicycles they had then, that was beyond grueling (I did a 110-mile day once and it knocked me flat for about a week).

He could write about sailing and world travel because he did it; more than that, he broke new ground. He nearly died in the Yukon as part of the Gold Rush in 1897. He spent two years sailing with a tiny crew on a 42' ketch all over the Pacific. And so on.

We need writers who shut up about how fast they are on the latest superbike, or what to have for dinner when on a tour, or what is the hippest gadget for one's idiotic digital entertainment center. We need writers who will "[url=https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/09/21/inspiration-club/]go after inspiration with a club" if necessary, and "[url=https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2851-i-would-rather-be-ashes-than-dust-i-would-rather]would rather be ashes than dust."

There are other examples of great journalists: Charles Lindbergh, Ernie Pyle, Walter Cronkite...

But these days any orifice with a computer can create a website and write anything, and if it sounds right, many will figure it's right, and anyway, it's free.

The issue (pun intended) is that few people know anything about motorcycles. They have become a lifestyle choice. Most people who ride these days have no idea whether their bikes are liquid or air/oil-cooled. They have no idea how to remove a wheel, or adjust a chain or cables, or do anything useful.

Motorcycles used to be, of necessity, hands-on vehicles. That was part of the attraction. No longer so.

Thus, the business model for the TYPE of journalism has changed.

The OLD GUARD who have recently failed were still going by the "I'm faster than you and I am going to tell you all about it" along with the "I got to go to Spain and test ride Yamaha's newest superbike, and I'm gonna tell you all about it. And I'm gonna amuse you with my cute, clever antics and maybe how drunk we all got at the hotel the night before."

The great men of motorsports journalism whom I've mentioned earlier, I mention to emphasize the lessons they can bring, and the great things they gave us in the past. I AM HONORED to have known them.

To your query: I know what business model would work and it involves having a respect for, and clear appreciation of, what Millennials think about and how they see the world.

However I am retired and not the least bit interested in that game, which, BTW, is extremely political when you get to the level of the MIC, AMA, and FIM. And that level kicks in the instant one publishes his first word.

You had better tell your friends to keep their day jobs, because unless they possess a keen sense of adventure, have an unusually well-developed ability to turn a phrase and find humor, irony, insight, and above all, HUMANITY in their written work -- along with a good grasp of the technical aspects of motorcycling today (and the relationship between digital and analogy technologies), they will fail.

Capo, I was pretty early into networking computers (early 1990's) and thus early into the Internet motorcycle magazine game. I stayed very involved for about five years and was asked to start the first website for one of the big three national magazines, but by that time, it was too late. Had they asked me to do it a few years earlier (which I suggested), I'd have jumped at the chance, as the salary was quite generous. But by the early 2000s, with the advent of myspace and so on, the Internet had become saturated with everyone's junk. Even mediocre journalism was non-existent. I knew for a fact these magazines, and their johnny-come-lately, half-baked websites, were doomed.

And they were. Sport Rider, Cycle World, soon Motorcyclist, and so on. Rider has a heritage from which to draw and stuck to the classic design. But there is only room for one book in that genre, and Rider is it.

I was once told that my approach to journalism was very similar to [url=http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/detail.aspx?RacerID=379]Cook Nielson's, and I am sure it is obvious I took that as a huge compliment.

But no one gives a rat about Cook Nielsen, or decent journalism, any longer. The lesser lights of the pseudo-journalism world (please read Lance Oliver's column on Common Tread, "[url=https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-motorcycle-journalism-isnt-journalism]Why Motorcycle Journalism Isn't Journalism" where he comes right out and admits there is nothing resembling real journalism on that site) are people who I personally watched become so entranced with their own egos and imagined stature in the industry that they flushed it all away. The baby is about to be thrown out with the bath water. I have been moved to a hiatus and reset from even this modest website because of a highly-variable signal/noise ratio, and have only returned out of pure cussedness. So I would hope one can see that professionals completely avoid motorcycles, and move into the automotive side of things, where the real money is.

You are in that game, right? You recall [url=http://www.motorpressguild.org/remembering-friend-founding-mpg-board-member-eric-dahlquist/]Eric Dahlquist? I knew him when I was in the Motor Press Guild. A very good man; he took me aside and gave me some excellent advice. We need more like him. Like Dan Gurney, he recently passed away. Yes, I knew Dan Gurney, too. And many others of the golden age of motorsports who have left us. It's a legacy really impossible to duplicate but there are some lessons there. I am INCREDIBLY fortunate to have learned so much from men like those.

The management at the aforementioned failed paper publications rested on its very dubious laurels and did nothing, paid no attention, and have suffered the consequences. I can clearly recall being mocked some 20 years ago for being an "Internet writer" (surprise, surprise, right, guys?) but I knew what was coming. And here we are, and there they are, out of work and pretty much unemployable.

Some may have noticed I infrequently quote or mention Jack London, one of the greatest of all journalists and writers. That's the kind of quality we need to restore motorcycle journalism.

Jack always personally did the things he wrote about. Did he ride a motorcycle? No, but he was an avid bicyclist, circa 1900, and would ride 80 miles each way to visit his girlfriend on weekends, 160 miles in 24 hours. And on the bicycles they had then, that was beyond grueling (I did a 110-mile day once and it knocked me flat for about a week).

He could write about sailing and world travel because he did it; more than that, he broke new ground. He nearly died in the Yukon as part of the Gold Rush in 1897. He spent two years sailing with a tiny crew on a 42' ketch all over the Pacific. And so on.

We need writers who shut up about how fast they are on the latest superbike, or what to have for dinner when on a tour, or what is the hippest gadget for one's idiotic digital entertainment center. We need writers who will "[url=https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/09/21/inspiration-club/]go after inspiration with a club" if necessary, and "[url=https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2851-i-would-rather-be-ashes-than-dust-i-would-rather]would rather be ashes than dust."

There are other examples of great journalists: Charles Lindbergh, Ernie Pyle, Walter Cronkite...

But these days any orifice with a computer can create a website and write anything, and if it sounds right, many will figure it's right, and anyway, it's free.

The issue (pun intended) is that few people know anything about motorcycles. They have become a lifestyle choice. Most people who ride these days have no idea whether their bikes are liquid or air/oil-cooled. They have no idea how to remove a wheel, or adjust a chain or cables, or do anything useful.

Motorcycles used to be, of necessity, hands-on vehicles. That was part of the attraction. No longer so.

Thus, the business model for the TYPE of journalism has changed.

The OLD GUARD who have recently failed were still going by the "I'm faster than you and I am going to tell you all about it" along with the "I got to go to Spain and test ride Yamaha's newest superbike, and I'm gonna tell you all about it. And I'm gonna amuse you with my cute, clever antics and maybe how drunk we all got at the hotel the night before."

I know what business model would work and it involves having a respect for, and clear appreciation of, what Millennials think about and how they see the world.

However I am retired and not the least bit interested in that game, which, BTW, is extremely political when you get to the level of the MIC, AMA, and FIM. And that level kicks in the instant one publishes his first word.

You had better tell your friends to keep their day jobs, because unless they possess a keen sense of adventure, have an unusually well-developed ability to turn a phrase and find humor, irony, insight, and above all, HUMANITY in their written work -- along with a good grasp of the technical aspects of motorcycling today (and the relationship between digital and analogy technologies), they will fail.

You must have been a nightmare to your editor!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(01-28-2018, 07:59 AM)Capo_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-28-2018, 07:55 AM)Ulvetanna_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-28-2018, 02:27 AM)Capo_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Would everyone who is cancelling their subscriptions to the very publications that cover (perhaps imperfectly) their most cherished passion, motorcycles, be willing to pay per article for the work of journalists that is currently published for free on digital platforms? Are you really saying that, even at 4 or 6 issues per year, you’re not willing to pay $10 or so a year for them? Is there an alternate model that would make you happy? Just asking for some friends.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Capo, I was pretty early into networking computers (early 1990's) and thus early into the Internet motorcycle magazine game. I stayed very involved for about five years and was asked to start the first website for one of the big three national magazines, but by that time, it was too late. Had they asked me to do it a few years earlier (which I suggested), I'd have jumped at the chance, as the salary was quite generous. But by the early 2000s, with the advent of myspace and so on, the Internet had become saturated with everyone's junk. Even mediocre journalism was non-existent. I knew for a fact these magazines, and their johnny-come-lately, half-baked websites, were doomed.

And they were. Sport Rider, Cycle World, soon Motorcyclist, and so on. Rider has a heritage from which to draw and stuck to the classic design. But there is only room for one book in that genre, and Rider is it.

I was once told that my approach to journalism was very similar to [url=http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/detail.aspx?RacerID=379]Cook Nielson's, and I am sure it is obvious I took that as a huge compliment.

But no one gives a rat about Cook Nielsen, or decent journalism, any longer. The lesser lights of the pseudo-journalism world (please read Lance Oliver's column on Common Tread, "[url=https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-motorcycle-journalism-isnt-journalism]Why Motorcycle Journalism Isn't Journalism" where he comes right out and admits there is nothing resembling real journalism on that site) are people who I personally watched become so entranced with their own egos and imagined stature in the industry that they flushed it all away. The baby is about to be thrown out with the bath water. I have been moved to a hiatus and reset from even this modest website because of a highly-variable signal/noise ratio, and have only returned out of pure cussedness. So I would hope one can see that professionals completely avoid motorcycles, and move into the automotive side of things, where the real money is.

You are in that game, right? You recall [url=http://www.motorpressguild.org/remembering-friend-founding-mpg-board-member-eric-dahlquist/]Eric Dahlquist? I knew him when I was in the Motor Press Guild. A very good man; he took me aside and gave me some excellent advice. We need more like him. Like Dan Gurney, he recently passed away. Yes, I knew Dan Gurney, too. And many others of the golden age of motorsports who have left us. It's a legacy really impossible to duplicate but there are some lessons there. I am INCREDIBLY fortunate to have learned so much from men like those. Another great guy who reached out to me was [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Considine]Tim Considine, who has a surname synonymous with great writing for decades. These guys offered to help me because, believe it or not, I humbled myself and made it clear I was willing to learn something. That guy was so modest, so humble himself (and he was a TV star with a huge family name) that I couldn't help but just shut up and listen.

The management at the aforementioned failed paper publications rested on its very dubious laurels and did nothing, paid no attention, and have suffered the consequences. I can clearly recall being mocked some 20 years ago for being an "Internet writer" (surprise, surprise, right, guys?) but I knew what was coming. And here we are, and there they are, out of work and pretty much unemployable.

Some may have noticed I infrequently quote or mention Jack London, one of the greatest of all journalists and writers. That's the kind of quality we need to restore motorcycle journalism.

Jack always personally did the things he wrote about. Did he ride a motorcycle? No, but he was an avid bicyclist, circa 1900, and would ride 80 miles each way to visit his girlfriend on weekends, 160 miles in 24 hours. And on the bicycles they had then, that was beyond grueling (I did a 110-mile day once and it knocked me flat for about a week).

He could write about sailing and world travel because he did it; more than that, he broke new ground. He nearly died in the Yukon as part of the Gold Rush in 1897. He spent two years sailing with a tiny crew on a 42' ketch all over the Pacific. And so on.

We need writers who shut up about how fast they are on the latest superbike, or what to have for dinner when on a tour, or what is the hippest gadget for one's idiotic digital entertainment center. We need writers who will "[url=https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/09/21/inspiration-club/]go after inspiration with a club" if necessary, and "[url=https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2851-i-would-rather-be-ashes-than-dust-i-would-rather]would rather be ashes than dust."

There are other examples of great journalists: Charles Lindbergh, Ernie Pyle, Walter Cronkite...

But these days any orifice with a computer can create a website and write anything, and if it sounds right, many will figure it's right, and anyway, it's free.

The issue (pun intended) is that few people know anything about motorcycles. They have become a lifestyle choice. Most people who ride these days have no idea whether their bikes are liquid or air/oil-cooled. They have no idea how to remove a wheel, or adjust a chain or cables, or do anything useful.

Motorcycles used to be, of necessity, hands-on vehicles. That was part of the attraction. No longer so.

Thus, the business model for the TYPE of journalism has changed.

The OLD GUARD who have recently failed were still going by the "I'm faster than you and I am going to tell you all about it" along with the "I got to go to Spain and test ride Yamaha's newest superbike, and I'm gonna tell you all about it. And I'm gonna amuse you with my cute, clever antics and maybe how drunk we all got at the hotel the night before."

The great men of motorsports journalism whom I've mentioned earlier, I mention to emphasize the lessons they can bring, and the great things they gave us in the past. I AM HONORED to have known them.

To your query: I know what business model would work and it involves having a respect for, and clear appreciation of, what Millennials think about and how they see the world.

However I am retired and not the least bit interested in that game, which, BTW, is extremely political when you get to the level of the MIC, AMA, and FIM. And that level kicks in the instant one publishes his first word.

You had better tell your friends to keep their day jobs, because unless they possess a keen sense of adventure, have an unusually well-developed ability to turn a phrase and find humor, irony, insight, and above all, HUMANITY in their written work -- along with a good grasp of the technical aspects of motorcycling today (and the relationship between digital and analogy technologies), they will fail.

Capo, I was pretty early into networking computers (early 1990's) and thus early into the Internet motorcycle magazine game. I stayed very involved for about five years and was asked to start the first website for one of the big three national magazines, but by that time, it was too late. Had they asked me to do it a few years earlier (which I suggested), I'd have jumped at the chance, as the salary was quite generous. But by the early 2000s, with the advent of myspace and so on, the Internet had become saturated with everyone's junk. Even mediocre journalism was non-existent. I knew for a fact these magazines, and their johnny-come-lately, half-baked websites, were doomed.

And they were. Sport Rider, Cycle World, soon Motorcyclist, and so on. Rider has a heritage from which to draw and stuck to the classic design. But there is only room for one book in that genre, and Rider is it.

I was once told that my approach to journalism was very similar to [url=http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/detail.aspx?RacerID=379]Cook Nielson's, and I am sure it is obvious I took that as a huge compliment.

But no one gives a rat about Cook Nielsen, or decent journalism, any longer. The lesser lights of the pseudo-journalism world (please read Lance Oliver's column on Common Tread, "[url=https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-motorcycle-journalism-isnt-journalism]Why Motorcycle Journalism Isn't Journalism" where he comes right out and admits there is nothing resembling real journalism on that site) are people who I personally watched become so entranced with their own egos and imagined stature in the industry that they flushed it all away. The baby is about to be thrown out with the bath water. I have been moved to a hiatus and reset from even this modest website because of a highly-variable signal/noise ratio, and have only returned out of pure cussedness. So I would hope one can see that professionals completely avoid motorcycles, and move into the automotive side of things, where the real money is.

You are in that game, right? You recall [url=http://www.motorpressguild.org/remembering-friend-founding-mpg-board-member-eric-dahlquist/]Eric Dahlquist? I knew him when I was in the Motor Press Guild. A very good man; he took me aside and gave me some excellent advice. We need more like him. Like Dan Gurney, he recently passed away. Yes, I knew Dan Gurney, too. And many others of the golden age of motorsports who have left us. It's a legacy really impossible to duplicate but there are some lessons there. I am INCREDIBLY fortunate to have learned so much from men like those.

The management at the aforementioned failed paper publications rested on its very dubious laurels and did nothing, paid no attention, and have suffered the consequences. I can clearly recall being mocked some 20 years ago for being an "Internet writer" (surprise, surprise, right, guys?) but I knew what was coming. And here we are, and there they are, out of work and pretty much unemployable.

Some may have noticed I infrequently quote or mention Jack London, one of the greatest of all journalists and writers. That's the kind of quality we need to restore motorcycle journalism.

Jack always personally did the things he wrote about. Did he ride a motorcycle? No, but he was an avid bicyclist, circa 1900, and would ride 80 miles each way to visit his girlfriend on weekends, 160 miles in 24 hours. And on the bicycles they had then, that was beyond grueling (I did a 110-mile day once and it knocked me flat for about a week).

He could write about sailing and world travel because he did it; more than that, he broke new ground. He nearly died in the Yukon as part of the Gold Rush in 1897. He spent two years sailing with a tiny crew on a 42' ketch all over the Pacific. And so on.

We need writers who shut up about how fast they are on the latest superbike, or what to have for dinner when on a tour, or what is the hippest gadget for one's idiotic digital entertainment center. We need writers who will "[url=https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/09/21/inspiration-club/]go after inspiration with a club" if necessary, and "[url=https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2851-i-would-rather-be-ashes-than-dust-i-would-rather]would rather be ashes than dust."

There are other examples of great journalists: Charles Lindbergh, Ernie Pyle, Walter Cronkite...

But these days any orifice with a computer can create a website and write anything, and if it sounds right, many will figure it's right, and anyway, it's free.

The issue (pun intended) is that few people know anything about motorcycles. They have become a lifestyle choice. Most people who ride these days have no idea whether their bikes are liquid or air/oil-cooled. They have no idea how to remove a wheel, or adjust a chain or cables, or do anything useful.

Motorcycles used to be, of necessity, hands-on vehicles. That was part of the attraction. No longer so.

Thus, the business model for the TYPE of journalism has changed.

The OLD GUARD who have recently failed were still going by the "I'm faster than you and I am going to tell you all about it" along with the "I got to go to Spain and test ride Yamaha's newest superbike, and I'm gonna tell you all about it. And I'm gonna amuse you with my cute, clever antics and maybe how drunk we all got at the hotel the night before."

I know what business model would work and it involves having a respect for, and clear appreciation of, what Millennials think about and how they see the world.

However I am retired and not the least bit interested in that game, which, BTW, is extremely political when you get to the level of the MIC, AMA, and FIM. And that level kicks in the instant one publishes his first word.

You had better tell your friends to keep their day jobs, because unless they possess a keen sense of adventure, have an unusually well-developed ability to turn a phrase and find humor, irony, insight, and above all, HUMANITY in their written work -- along with a good grasp of the technical aspects of motorcycling today (and the relationship between digital and analogy technologies), they will fail.

You must have been a nightmare to your editor!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Believe it or not, because I did all my own legwork, and did a very careful job of editing, the guys in top management (who also rode motorcycles and columns) like me and my work. I was very thorough and took great pride in leaving very little for the proofreader to do.

The good people are fewer and further between these days. They want it yesterday, and don't care if it's accurate. Lance Oliver said it well.

(01-28-2018, 03:05 AM)cookiemech_imp Wrote: [ -> ]No, I wouldn't pay a nickel for that. The journalists are usually beholden in some way to manufacturers and so I don't trust them to be objective; moreover, generally they have some slant in their writing (for example, they really only like sport bikes or Harleys).

I'd much rather get the opinions of people on a forum like this, who tend to be self-selected in their tastes (so pretty much everyone on this site likes CB1100s). And they're not doing it for the money . . .

That is EXACTLY right. That's why I'm here. I figure someone will get something useful, truly helpful, once in a while.

So I tangle with the moderators or a member or two once in a while.

I don't care. Until I'm banned (lol), I do this for the 4,000 members because it's an excellent platform and well-managed.

I have huge respect for Bob Guthrie and what he's done here, but he's always got final call on things. If I get too far out into left field, he'll reel me in. But so far, so good.

And yes, if that sounds altruistic, it is. Perhaps masochistic as well, but when even one member says he got something useful out of anything I've learned, I like that. That's more than adequate compensation.

(01-28-2018, 03:41 AM)Capo_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-28-2018, 03:05 AM)cookiemech_imp Wrote: [ -> ]No, I wouldn't pay a nickel for that. The journalists are usually beholden in some way to manufacturers and so I don't trust them to be objective; moreover, generally they have some slant in their writing (for example, they really only like sport bikes or Harleys).

I'd much rather get the opinions of people on a forum like this, who tend to be self-selected in their tastes (so pretty much everyone on this site likes CB1100s). And they're not doing it for the money . . .

'The journalists are usually beholden in some way to manufacturers and so I don't trust them to be objective; moreover, generally they have some slant in their writing.' That's a pretty broad brush statement. And patently false, but regardless, if you're saying you don't want opinion, POV, or perspectives, then, yes, you are not a likely customer for any form of journalism, other than perhaps spec sheets and pictures. And yes, the feedback loop of a model- specific forum can be comforting.

I'm going to continue to prod this, as we are at a serious inflection point in media. Nobody seems to want to pay for anything, everyone apparently wants precisely what they want, and nothing else, and nobody trusts anyone unless they agree with an already formed point of view. A la Carte but free. Not sure if anything moving forward will satisfy that. But yet, we do all want to have access to professional content of some sort.

It's not patently false, but certainly it is not utterly true, either. Some journalism is more objective than others, but all journalism is subjective.

Please, anyone who is reading this, take a look at [url=https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-motorcycle-journalism-isnt-journalism]Mr. Lance Oliver's column on this very thing. The new business model is that the manufacturers control the game, almost entirely. And he has a bird's-eye view, working for Revzilla, owned by Cycle Gear.

No one's gonna buy Internet journalism of any kind, not for a very very long time, if ever. Someone'll figure out what's next, just like rock bands with tube amplifiers and real drums are starting to make a comeback.

(01-28-2018, 06:30 AM)cookiemech_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I don't want anyone to give away his time for free. I was willing for many, many years to pay subscriptions to quite a few (maybe 8 or 10) car and motorcycle magazines. But there was less and less content. Not gonna pay for that.

And the amount I have to pay for internet access and a smartphone plan is ridiculous, considering that any site I view is polluted with ads. I couldn't care less if all the motorcycle magazines went belly up. YouTube videos provide tons of product information, and I'm pretty sure I'll never have to pay to see Matt Laidlaw testing all the new Harley-Davidsons that his family sells in southern California. I don't have to wonder what his motivations are; he wants to sell bikes. But he makes great videos.

Clearly I am not alone in not having any intentions of paying for content on the Web. If I should see real value to me, perhaps I could be persuaded. Value used to exist when there was a nice, thick, color magazine every month in my mailbox.

I doubt that anyone cares about how much internet access and smartphone plans cost other than the providers for those services. As soon as the print world shrinks enough in size you can look forward to a lot more ads than you're seeing now, or paying a lot more for content to fill the screens of your various devices, or possibly both. It won't be fun. I don't mean that to be as cold-hearted as it sounds, but I'm guessing that it will be sooner rather than later when my take on this is proven to be true.

(01-28-2018, 08:56 AM)Guth_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-28-2018, 06:30 AM)cookiemech_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I don't want anyone to give away his time for free. I was willing for many, many years to pay subscriptions to quite a few (maybe 8 or 10) car and motorcycle magazines. But there was less and less content. Not gonna pay for that.

And the amount I have to pay for internet access and a smartphone plan is ridiculous, considering that any site I view is polluted with ads. I couldn't care less if all the motorcycle magazines went belly up. YouTube videos provide tons of product information, and I'm pretty sure I'll never have to pay to see Matt Laidlaw testing all the new Harley-Davidsons that his family sells in southern California. I don't have to wonder what his motivations are; he wants to sell bikes. But he makes great videos.

Clearly I am not alone in not having any intentions of paying for content on the Web. If I should see real value to me, perhaps I could be persuaded. Value used to exist when there was a nice, thick, color magazine every month in my mailbox.

I doubt that anyone cares about how much internet access and smartphone plans cost other than the providers for those services. As soon as the print world shrinks enough in size you can look forward to a lot more ads than you're seeing now, or paying a lot more for content to fill the screens of your various devices, or possibly both. It won't be fun. I don't mean that to be as cold-hearted as it sounds, but I'm guessing that it will be sooner rather than later when my take on this is proven to be true.

I doubt that anyone cares about how much internet access and smartphone plans cost other than the providers for those services. As soon as the print world shrinks enough in size you can look forward to a lot more ads than you're seeing now, or paying a lot more for content to fill the screens of your various devices, or possibly both. It won't be fun. I don't mean that to be as cold-hearted as it sounds, but I'm guessing that it will be sooner rather than later when my take on this is proven to be true. Not cold-hearted; the world has changed. It's just the way things have evolved. But you are right on with the above statements. Things inevitably have to change.

(01-28-2018, 08:56 AM)Guth_imp Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-28-2018, 06:30 AM)cookiemech_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I don't want anyone to give away his time for free. I was willing for many, many years to pay subscriptions to quite a few (maybe 8 or 10) car and motorcycle magazines. But there was less and less content. Not gonna pay for that.

And the amount I have to pay for internet access and a smartphone plan is ridiculous, considering that any site I view is polluted with ads. I couldn't care less if all the motorcycle magazines went belly up. YouTube videos provide tons of product information, and I'm pretty sure I'll never have to pay to see Matt Laidlaw testing all the new Harley-Davidsons that his family sells in southern California. I don't have to wonder what his motivations are; he wants to sell bikes. But he makes great videos.

Clearly I am not alone in not having any intentions of paying for content on the Web. If I should see real value to me, perhaps I could be persuaded. Value used to exist when there was a nice, thick, color magazine every month in my mailbox.

I doubt that anyone cares about how much internet access and smartphone plans cost other than the providers for those services. As soon as the print world shrinks enough in size you can look forward to a lot more ads than you're seeing now, or paying a lot more for content to fill the screens of your various devices, or possibly both. It won't be fun. I don't mean that to be as cold-hearted as it sounds, but I'm guessing that it will be sooner rather than later when my take on this is proven to be true.

I doubt that anyone cares about how much internet access and smartphone plans cost other than the providers for those services. As soon as the print world shrinks enough in size you can look forward to a lot more ads than you're seeing now, or paying a lot more for content to fill the screens of your various devices, or possibly both. It won't be fun. I don't mean that to be as cold-hearted as it sounds, but I'm guessing that it will be sooner rather than later when my take on this is proven to be true. Not cold-hearted; the world has changed. It's just the way things have evolved. But you are right on with the above statements. Things inevitably have to change.

(01-28-2018, 06:53 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I am certainly willing (by evidence of the subscriptions I have had since the 70's paying every year) to pay for my subscriptions.I have every issue printed of some of the mags. My wife wants me to give them to someone. She's tired of looking at the stacks. I do think they used to do more thorough reviews of the bikes years ago, but I can sympathize with the hit the high points and get on to the next piece editors must push for.

I love the printed word. I don't read any magazines on line. I want to hold paper in my hand. I'm a dinosaur in that regard. Also a voracious reader. I can digest the contents of a magazine, every article, including all the ads in a single evening. I don't like the thought of going from 12 issues to 4 for the same content (and you know it will be less content) spread out 3 months apart. But hey, have to keep the doors open. I will see how it goes.

Heck for 23 years I wrote for hunting magazines. Sold my first article in 1990. My last maybe 5 years ago. Was an associate editor for Primitive Archer magazine for 15 years maybe? I know the electronic media is now eating into print sales big time. Not enough young people want the "burden" of magazines.

Agree. Reading is not something anyone routinely does well. Reading for accuracy and precision, and especially contextual comprehension, is nearly non-existent, even in college-educated people. People want to be -- no, NEED to be -- told what to do these days.

Reading the printed word used to be a very special and personal experience. That need is now satisfied with endless hours of video and mindless browsing.

I know some, perhaps many, will misunderstand my point here, but when the "Harry Potter" series supplanted J.R.R. Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" as the fantasy-adventure of choice, I knew the days of true "reading" were over.

J.K. Rowling is in no wise any where nearly as well-qualified to imbue her work with any level of social subtext as was Mr. Tolkien. While some may see Tolkien's major life's work as an allegory for the continuation of the British Empire, it is still an astonishing and remarkable read, and always will be. While not true "literature" in the pure academic sense, they hold a great deal of truth and many lessons on the human condition.

These things are sadly lacking from nearly all popular reading now.

I learned to read with Dick and Jane...