The CB1100 Community Forum

Not sure if this topic has been discussed, however, I will risk bringing it up:

** The Death Knell of Motorcycling As We Know It. **

This might smell a bit of a conspiracy, but let's consider a few things:

* Technology is moving ever faster. Remember CDs, DVDs and even Bluerays? They're dead and dying;
* Autonomous vehicles based on machine learning, sensor advancement, and world-space database technologies;
* Electric-drive and slight variations of the theme;
* The erratic and political cost of dino;
* The environmental impact of drilling, fracking, and transportion of dino;
* Emission issues of burning dino (although diesel is pretty bad);
* The perception that millennials don't want to harm the environment with cars and vis-a-vis motorbikes, and therefore withhold such investments while living in urban centers;
* The perception that Harleys [traditionally] give motorcycling a poor image to young generation would-be purchasers (i.e. air and non-factory noise pollution);
* New motorcycling purchases have been declining worldwide for over the past 20 years (I think more);
* And, conversely, worldwide (and likely excluding North America) scooters have become more popular than ever, more fuel efficient, faster, better looking, quieter, better handling, ultra low maintenance, all season, and convenient.

On this trend it won't be long before people say, "Oooooo, he rides a gas burning motorcycle ... we won't associate with him. Shun, shun." This is somewhat like the stigma of traditional smoking.

In addition, all the yadda regarding self-driving vehicles of all nature: Cars, trucks, buses. How long will it take to work out all the kinks in artificial intelligence and how many lives will it cost to get there? Well, eventually we will get there because business wants it there. There is money to be made in services - lots of it.

But wouldn't this drive demand for motorcycling upward as people **yearn** even more control of their transport freedom? Well sure. Maybe F-150 owners will cling tooth and nail until gas is $12 per gallon and rationed because fossil fuel is out-of-fashion. Or some tax is added to vehicle purchases to get people to ween off dino.

But the fossil fuel bike would still be harming the environment, upsetting AI-motivated vehicles, and generate less and less revenue for the bike manufacturers.

It is my understanding that brands like BMW and Honda are already road-mapping themselves out of the dino car and motorbike business because the numbers are declining. This is profound. I did not make this up. Sure, everybody could eventually manufacture in India or China, but it cannot go on forever. Costs have to bottom at some point. So the road map changes.

Motorbikes (and cars) are already not allowed in city core Paris and a few other European centers.

It will be interesting to see how this really unfolds for current and future riders. Will everyone ride electric scooters? Dunno.

One thing that I foresee as not changing too much is the demand for off-road motorbikes. Yes there is the Zero, but dino-powered off-road rides will always be in demand in areas that has not been paved over by civilization (Mars comes to mind).

Thoughts?

"It is my understanding that brands like BMW and Honda are already road-mapping themselves out of the dino car and motorbike business because the numbers are declining. This is profound"

Good for them. That's what they should do. Who in the days of the steam locomotive and actual horsepower foresaw cities based on Henry Ford's concept of a car for the common man and mass transit running off of electric traction? Change, for better or worse, is one of history's few constants.

Although, I am not anxious presently to accept any substitute for for gasoline, an electric motorcycle is an interesting idea. In my mind it would have huge lithium batteries, light, and with constant voltage to near-zero. Neck-snapping torque off the line would require that I be braced and strapped in somehow. Variable regenerative breaking would mean incredibly flexible control to play with, and, as much as we all enjoy our favorite exhaust note, the lack of sound running through the twisties, apart from an electric whir and the wind, could be a thing I would learn to like.

Yes, I'm with you, Paris. Change is a constant and the shift to electric powered vehicles is inevitable. Me? I'll miss the vibe and the noise of my CB1100 but, in the end, the freedom of being on the bike is the most important bit of the experience and I'm sure I'll learn to love the all-electric experience.

My view is that governments in Europe and the US need to get together and mandate a battery standard so that, as we're getting low on juice, we can stop at a service station and swap the batteries over. Should almost be quicker than filling the tank. And cheaper.

Why is there not more focus on hydrogen/fuel cell vehicles. This would suit motorcycles perfectly as it does away with the need to bring along heavy batteries. The action of filling up is essentially the same as with petrol today. What is needed is a proper distribution network of hydrogen through regular gas stations, something that can be done fairly easily.

Still, other than a couple of Japanese and Korean car manufacturers, there is hardly anybody really focusing on this. Certainly not on the bike front.

Incidentally, cars are not banned in central Paris. What has happened is that in the summer when pollution levels went beyond a certain limit, they were allowing limited number of cars to the city centre. It would be decided on even and odd number plates. Also, there are rules going up about how polluting a car is, and levels being set determining if they can go to the centre or not. But, cars are still allowed in central Paris...

my view is that there will always be some form of two-wheeled single-person conveyance on the roads, for as long as individual road-bound personal transportation devices are allowed. it's just logical. a "motorcycle" will always be rolling, in some form or another. Things will change, it's true, but even though i'm only in my 30's i'm confident that I wont' live long enough to see the day when i'm legally not even allowed to throw a leg over my CB and take it out on the highway. it will never become a track bike or a garage curio. That doesn't mean I won't also own a self-balancing fully electric, route-mapping, AI controlled motorcycle as well, but the CB is still going out 4 days a week at least.

All this might be coming but at 68 I am not worried at all !
I love the looks and sound and smell of a good running motor cycle like the Honda CB 1100.

(11-11-2018, 10:31 PM)Houtman_imp Wrote: [ -> ]All this might be coming but at 68 I am not worried at all !
I love the looks and sound and smell of a good running motor cycle like the Honda CB 1100.

+1

(11-11-2018, 02:27 PM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure if this topic has been discussed, however, I will risk bringing it up:

** The Death Knell of Motorcycling As We Know It. **

This might smell a bit of a conspiracy, but let's consider a few things:

* Technology is moving ever faster. Remember CDs, DVDs and even Bluerays? They're dead and dying;
* Autonomous vehicles based on machine learning, sensor advancement, and world-space database technologies;
* Electric-drive and slight variations of the theme;
* The erratic and political cost of dino;
* The environmental impact of drilling, fracking, and transportion of dino;
* Emission issues of burning dino (although diesel is pretty bad);
* The perception that millennials don't want to harm the environment with cars and vis-a-vis motorbikes, and therefore withhold such investments while living in urban centers;
* The perception that Harleys [traditionally] give motorcycling a poor image to young generation would-be purchasers (i.e. air and non-factory noise pollution);
* New motorcycling purchases have been declining worldwide for over the past 20 years (I think more);
* And, conversely, worldwide (and likely excluding North America) scooters have become more popular than ever, more fuel efficient, faster, better looking, quieter, better handling, ultra low maintenance, all season, and convenient.

On this trend it won't be long before people say, "Oooooo, he rides a gas burning motorcycle ... we won't associate with him. Shun, shun." This is somewhat like the stigma of traditional smoking.

In addition, all the yadda regarding self-driving vehicles of all nature: Cars, trucks, buses. How long will it take to work out all the kinks in artificial intelligence and how many lives will it cost to get there? Well, eventually we will get there because business wants it there. There is money to be made in services - lots of it.

But wouldn't this drive demand for motorcycling upward as people **yearn** even more control of their transport freedom? Well sure. Maybe F-150 owners will cling tooth and nail until gas is $12 per gallon and rationed because fossil fuel is out-of-fashion. Or some tax is added to vehicle purchases to get people to ween off dino.

But the fossil fuel bike would still be harming the environment, upsetting AI-motivated vehicles, and generate less and less revenue for the bike manufacturers.

It is my understanding that brands like BMW and Honda are already road-mapping themselves out of the dino car and motorbike business because the numbers are declining. This is profound. I did not make this up. Sure, everybody could eventually manufacture in India or China, but it cannot go on forever. Costs have to bottom at some point. So the road map changes.

Motorbikes (and cars) are already not allowed in city core Paris and a few other European centers.

It will be interesting to see how this really unfolds for current and future riders. Will everyone ride electric scooters? Dunno.

One thing that I foresee as not changing too much is the demand for off-road motorbikes. Yes there is the Zero, but dino-powered off-road rides will always be in demand in areas that has not been paved over by civilization (Mars comes to mind).

Thoughts?

I'm pretty neutral on electric vehicles and would certainly consider an electric motorcycle. In fact, if I was still active in Trials riding, I would probably own an electric trials bike.

That said, it seems with electric vehicles we are just swapping carbon emissions you can see (tailpipe) with carbon emissions you can’t see (production of electricity).

63% of the electricity generated in the United States is generated from fossil fuels, mainly natural gas and coal. Dino is not eliminated.

Nuclear and hydro (dams) make up 27% of electrical production, but the chance of increased production from these sources is effectively nil. Kudos to France by the way, 78% of their electrical production is nuclear.

That only leaves wind and solar as viable sources to shift away from fossil fuels. I hope they are successful, but I think dino will be here for a long time.

One other thing, manufacturing emissions for electric vehicles, like Tesla, are 68 percent higher than for conventional cars primarily due to environmental impact of lithium mining and battery production.

Somebody once tried to sell me on a Zero, and i'd be lying if i said i wasn't interesting. I ultimately shrugged it off by saying that my bike is better because " he eats dinosaurs and craps global warming. " The guy had the most incredible response i've ever heard:

"oh yea? well this DSR eats lighting and craps adrenaline. " with salesmen like that, i'm sure electric will find its place in the market, and eventually become the majority. I just wish they'd make electric bikes that shift....

(11-12-2018, 02:16 AM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Somebody once tried to sell me on a Zero, and i'd be lying if i said i wasn't interesting. I ultimately shrugged it off by saying that my bike is better because " he eats dinosaurs and craps global warming. " The guy had the most incredible response i've ever heard:

"oh yea? well this DSR eats lighting and craps adrenaline. " with salesmen like that, i'm sure electric will find its place in the market, and eventually become the majority. I just wish they'd make electric bikes that shift....

That got my attention. I looked up the nearest Zero dealer, and found they were the same Royal Enfield dealer I was going to visit this week. It looks like I may have two very different test rides in store for me soon.