basical i am bored talking about this topic.......ABS is a ery fine safety feature like good clothes ( too with protectors reflectors ) or helmet , light on the bike
and for example i read here only about crash.....hey i want know how many falls bcos blocked ( front) weehl........or why "crahs" and " falls" bcos the driver was scared to pull full the brakes bcos he knows he havent ABS........
only count somhow " crashs/ accidents " without backgroundinfo is to much simple
if is the topic only : ABS (can) make the brakeway shorter and nothingmore.......hmmm i dont know.....
what are the consequences of a blocked wheel, especially on a bike ........ that is the topic
abs always works the same no matter what condition the person is in ... Certain people ignore the moment of surprise or how they really react in such a moment ...... braking with or without ABS needs to be learned to be practiced ..... very super especially without ....
(09-07-2021, 08:48 AM)Cormanus_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I found a link to this study pointing to the benefits of ABS for motorcycles in the ADVRider newsletter and thought it might be of interest, https://www.iihs.org/api/datastoredocume...raphy/2236
tod.branko, I know you’ll enjoy the statistical work.
Edit: Link should work now.
Another interesting thing I've noticed in this paper is that "statistically" non ABS Honda Monkey is tbe ultimate killer with 65.1/10,000, more than any of the sports bikes that also have a higher incidence
'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed
a monkey with its weight distribution short wheelbase soft suspensions small wheels ... has its special physical properties ........ ABS is especially useful for you ....... giving these 3 more bucks out is definitely worth it case ...... now here in europe ABS has been mandatory for new vehicles for a number of years
I think some people mean ahh just a little monkey a toy ... it doesn't need special attention .... well the opposite is the case ....you know i have a monkey since over 12000 km
(09-07-2021, 03:31 PM)alprider_imp Wrote: [ -> ]abs always works the same no matter what condition the person is in ... Certain people ignore the moment of surprise or how they really react in such a moment ...... braking with or without ABS needs to be learned to be practiced ..... very super especially without ....
Recalling an accident I had in the 60's on a BSA and if ABS would have helped me.
Riding along a road at 60mph and a van pulled out of a side road about 10 meters in front of me. All I can remember before the impact is letting go of the handle bars and putting my hands in front of my face for protection. Not a thought about braking at all.
A year later on a Yamaha rd250 a similar thing happened with a car pulling out on me but with a longer braking distance I did brake this time and remember the rear locking up and realising I wasn't going to stop so just before the impact I jumped of the rear of the bike.
We do things we can not control in cases of emergency so would ABS have helped. Its ok to watch video's of riders steering around planned hazards while braking but in real situations would we do it ?
I have ABS now but not sure if it will help, I hope so.
(09-07-2021, 04:00 PM)tod.branko_imp Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2021, 08:48 AM)Cormanus_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I found a link to this study pointing to the benefits of ABS for motorcycles in the ADVRider newsletter and thought it might be of interest, https://www.iihs.org/api/datastoredocume...raphy/2236
tod.branko, I know you’ll enjoy the statistical work.
Edit: Link should work now.
Another interesting thing I've noticed in this paper is that "statistically" non ABS Honda Monkey is tbe ultimate killer with 65.1/10,000, more than any of the sports bikes that also have a higher incidence
'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed
Another interesting thing I've noticed in this paper is that "statistically" non ABS Honda Monkey is tbe ultimate killer with 65.1/10,000, more than any of the sports bikes that also have a higher incidence
'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed Actually, you can't quite say that. In general, this data can't be used to compare vehicle models. It can only compare the difference between ABS and non ABS versions of the same vehicle...and even here, there are some caveats.
The data is per vehicle year. If for example, a Monkey is more typically used as a daily commuter and a Shadow is used as a weekend bike to tool around the neighborhood, there may be significantly more vehicle hours per vehicle year on Monkeys than on Shadows (or not...we just don't know from the data.)
And even within a model, the data could have problems. In the case of the Monkdy for example, there are significantly more non-ABS versions sold. The folks who spend the extra money for ABS ($200USD) might be more safety conscious.
(09-07-2021, 05:32 PM)tommymck_imp Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2021, 04:00 PM)tod.branko_imp Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2021, 08:48 AM)Cormanus_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I found a link to this study pointing to the benefits of ABS for motorcycles in the ADVRider newsletter and thought it might be of interest, https://www.iihs.org/api/datastoredocume...raphy/2236
tod.branko, I know you’ll enjoy the statistical work.
Edit: Link should work now.
Another interesting thing I've noticed in this paper is that "statistically" non ABS Honda Monkey is tbe ultimate killer with 65.1/10,000, more than any of the sports bikes that also have a higher incidence
'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed
Another interesting thing I've noticed in this paper is that "statistically" non ABS Honda Monkey is tbe ultimate killer with 65.1/10,000, more than any of the sports bikes that also have a higher incidence
'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed Actually, you can't quite say that. In general, this data can't be used to compare vehicle models. It can only compare the difference between ABS and non ABS versions of the same vehicle...and even here, there are some caveats.
The data is per vehicle year. If for example, a Monkey is more typically used as a daily commuter and a Shadow is used as a weekend bike to tool around the neighborhood, there may be significantly more vehicle hours per vehicle year on Monkeys than on Shadows (or not...we just don't know from the data.)
And even within a model, the data could have problems. In the case of the Monkdy for example, there are significantly more non-ABS versions sold. The folks who spend the extra money for ABS ($200USD) might be more safety conscious.
Another interesting thing I've noticed in this paper is that "statistically" non ABS Honda Monkey is tbe ultimate killer with 65.1/10,000, more than any of the sports bikes that also have a higher incidence
'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed Actually, you can't quite say that. In general, this data can't be used to compare vehicle models. It can only compare the difference between ABS and non ABS versions of the same vehicle...and even here, there are some caveats.
The data is per vehicle year. If for example, a Monkey is more typically used as a daily commuter and a Shadow is used as a weekend bike to tool around the neighborhood, there may be significantly more vehicle hours per vehicle year on Monkeys than on Shadows (or not...we just don't know from the data.)
And even within a model, the data could have problems. In the case of the Monkdy for example, there are significantly more non-ABS versions sold. The folks who spend the extra money for ABS ($200USD) might be more safety conscious. My sarcastic comment about the Monkey aside;
I can definitely say that, that's the thing about statistics - data is incomplete, taken out of context, and one can cherry pick it as much they want. And I want to point out that one is statistically more likely to be involved in a fatal accident with a non-ABS monkey than with a GSXR-1000, thus from now on I'm recommending a Gixer as a better beginner option than a monkey
'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed
Oh, boy. I knew this would be fun.
All your fault Cormanus..., some very valid points made here and the study seems not biased given the methods used, that does not mean it is the total answer.
Some sidenotes; no mention about driver skill level or experience, what the circumstances were at the scene, did the brakes even operate at the time ( Mixagon ), did the bike exit in a corner etc.
So the difference is 22% overall, that's no doubt better but not as good as let say 80% better survivability.
The cb1100 abs ratio is 6.6 to 1 without ( 14,701 ) to with (2,225 ) abs ( page 11 ) is an unequal ratio and can be mistakenly interpreted as "no fatals have happened with abs" so you have to see this in context.
More parts in a system also means more chances of failure, the standard systems are fairly reliable if maintained, but i now know of at least two documented instances on this forum where the system with abs had failed unexpectedly, i found it hard to believe in the first case but now i can see why it happens.
As discussed earlier the abs system requires regular fluid changes and operation to prevent the "freezing up" any moving parts inside the modulator.
So is it better? yes but adjust your expectations accordingly, thanks Cormanus, good find.
I hope everyone understands my rants are all in good fun, I still have a few healthy brain cells lol
'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed